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Thread: Non-NJPW Puroresu General Discussion

  1. #1
    Me Gusta Cola Jeff's Avatar
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    Non-NJPW Puroresu General Discussion

    This is the thread for all things puroresu. New Japan, NOAH, All Japan, Dragon Gate, the litany of joshi companies...if you want to discuss it, it goes here!

    In Dragon Gate news, the Millenials are the new Twin Gate champs, and Genki Horiguchi H.A.Gee.Mee!! is the new Brave Gate champ. Both won their respective belts in tournaments (the Twin Gate belts through the annual Summer Adventure Tag League; the Brave Gate through a standard tourney). The Millenials win isn't surprising, as DG has been pushing these guys since they got back from Mexico, but Horiguchi's win is a bit of a surprise, considering Masato Yoshino gave it up so the new generation could go after it. But hey, I love Horiguchi, so I can't complain too much.

  2. #2
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    Tomohiro Ishii vs Tetsuya Naito - NJPW 2/11/14 MOTY so far and a ***** match imo. What a fucking war.

    Nakamura vs Tanahashi - NJPW 2/11/14 is almost as good. Better match then the one they had at WK8

  3. #3
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    How was El Desperado vs Kota Ibushi in his first title defense?

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    It was okay. El Desperado looked a little rough compared to Ibushi and well it was your standard jr title defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    It was okay. El Desperado looked a little rough compared to Ibushi and well it was your standard jr title defense.
    Desperado still a baby tho. Cant expect the world from him just yet.


    I hope the Bullet Club doesnt break up if Devitt jumps. There are very few guys I think could run a 4 horsemen style Gaijin stable in Japan.

    Lance Archer thinks hes Brody
    Davey Boy Smith Jr is fat.
    Karl Anderson, the Machine Gun, can keep it together for a time but at best he's Arn Anderson.
    None of the Samoans could run as the top guy.
    AJ Styles cannot do serious wrestling
    Corino has a baby (and a relationships which would probably prevent him from doing it)
    Bobby Fish is BOBBY FISH i just cant see him as the ric flair of this stable of greats.


    Hero? He has a history in Japanese Wrestling. He has size, he has worked the Japanese style in Pro Wrestling NOAH, he even was allowed to stay at the dojo after the tour. He was on the show Misawa died and was the last wrestler who he taught the roaring elbow to. I dont know if he has enough natural prickishness or could cut enough of a heel promo in Japan. Hes not as pretty as Devitt either.

    Am i missing anyone with real potential and a history in Japan?

    That whole excersize has just made me sad.

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    Samoa Joe in Japan would be pretty awesome if he left TNA.

    there is no one really but I don't see Devitt leaving at least not until he puts over Taguchi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    Samoa Joe in Japan would be pretty awesome if he left TNA.

    there is no one really but I don't see Devitt leaving at least not until he puts over Taguchi.
    I didnt see him walking away from his Armani Exchange contract but he has the WWE deal in his hands and we should know in like 2-3 weeks. ALso if you look at Devitt's twitter ... Ryusuke Taguchi looks like to be next. I dont want to see him be Sheamus lackey or in a tag team with Pac. Or drinking tobacco spit on Raw.

    Johnny Gargano wouldnt be the worst choice. I dont know if he can seep the pride of someone like Devitt. He would have to do it and they would have to focus on getting him heat first. Maybe tag him with Shelley. He seems to get a really good reaction.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 02-12-2014 at 02:19 AM.

  8. #8
    Sidgwick
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    Nakamura vs. Tanahashi II was awesome, better than the Dome bout, but there was one slight botch at the finish, i.e. the worst possible time, and it let the side down slightly.

    I don't think Ishii vs. Naito was better than Okada vs. Naito or Goto vs. Sakuraba at the Dome, purely because there were some unseemly botches in the middle stretch, but it was incredible nonetheless. Following Goto's unsuccessful IWGP title challenge, New Japan is running out of babyfaces. Ishii or Shibata are my shouts for the G1, but I’m slightly worried about who can provide a credible filler challenge in the meantime.

    Who is next to challenge Okada, and who will ultimately beat him?

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    Shibata will be the next challenger and he'll beat him.. Hopefully. if not, they'll wait til a big a show to give it to Nakamura. I think this has been way too soon for Okada to have some legendary run.

    I loved Nakamura/Tanahashi but like you, the botch hurt it. Some people said they were fine with it cause Nakamura doesn't use that move often anymore.

    The hot crowd for Ishii/Naito really drew me in. So much so, I didn't even notice the sloppiness.

  10. #10
    Oliver
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    I think Nakamura is going to be the one to take the title, to be honest. Some kind of story with Okada saying he is the new leader of CHAOS and kicking him out of the group. That said, I'd kind of rather Okada ended up on the winning side and Shibata win the New Japan Cup, in line with the challenge Okada has laid down to him, and then take the title.

    Shit, I've got to finish writing this Okada/Tanahashi series before Okada loses the belt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Hero? He has a history in Japanese Wrestling. He has size, he has worked the Japanese style in Pro Wrestling NOAH, he even was allowed to stay at the dojo after the tour. He was on the show Misawa died and was the last wrestler who he taught the roaring elbow to.
    Thats a god damn gimmick. You believe everything? The closest he was to Misawa was the day he died. Never learned anything from him. He asked permission to do the whole elbow thing as a gimmick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    Thats a god damn gimmick. You believe everything? The closest he was to Misawa was the day he died. Never learned anything from him. He asked permission to do the whole elbow thing as a gimmick.
    Semantics.

    He got his permission and got Misawa to "gift him" the roaring elbow. Dont get me wrong, im not sure Misawa PLANNED that Ohno would be the last wrestler he gave the Elbow to but thats what happened. Imagine the heat of misusing the elbow. Imagine the heat of heat of Hero using a loaded Misawa elbow pad to CHEAT TO WIN.

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    ....man....

  14. #14
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    If Hero could stop smiling like a bitch he might be perfect.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9MH39tR3gU&noredirect=1
    Chris Hero vs Takashi Suguira from First Navigation 2010 day 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXK-RdRyFy4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73iUCBmV5Cg
    KENTA vs Chris Hero ROH on HDNET Episode 29
    Last edited by Irishsara; 02-12-2014 at 06:26 PM.

  15. #15
    makeo
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    I'm kinda looking forward to Njpw/Roh shows in May. There's only one problem though, I genuinely don't think anyone in Roh can hang with Okada, Tanahashi or Nakamura.

    Maybe AJ can. Other than that I view people like Adam Cole, Chris Hero, Mike Bennett etc as quite a bit below them.

    Possibly that's because I see a lot of roh guys over here on the brit Indy circuit, whereas I only see njpw on ustream.

    Hero for example, I don't view as any better than Kris Travis or Stixx, just more known to the North American market. That doesn't mean that when PCW releases the Road to Glory dvd, with Noam Dar vs Hero, I won't buy it and look forward to it, it's just that I see the Njpw main eventers on a lot higher level.

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    Chris Hero spent enough time in Japan. If anything he is significantly more qualified than AJ Styles to work with someone like Okada. Hero hung with KENTA. Chris Hero vs Akira Tozawa from Battle Of Los Angeles 2010 is one of the best matches of his career. I think Steen and Cole and Tommaso Ciampa have the basic skills. Koslov, Corino and Roderick Strong have experience in Japanese wrestling.

    Chris Hero vs Go Shiozaki - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip3e6-NERWc

  17. #17
    makeo
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    I'm aware of the various Japanese experience of wrestlers. Suffice to say, I don't rate Hero at it. I think he is far better working a RoH match with Jap influences than he actually is at Jap matches.

    And shit, El Ligero had a better match with Tozawa than Hero.

    Ligero vs Tozawa

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8mKyrOCR2i0

    Other than that, eh, we've all got opinions. I don't rate Hero as more than RoH upper mid card, and think the promotion is pretty average atm.

    Think the Japs will have to try to give a lot to try to work the RoH style, as the RoH guys can't hang generally.

  18. #18
    makeo
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    Do think Cole will make it though.

    Just view him as being potential and a few years behind.

    Him vs Nakamura.
    Elgin or Bennett vs Devitt would be decent NJPW mid card matches.

    To be honest, I'd rather someone like Alex Shelley, who actually can work a super junior match than Hero.

    Edit: Okada or Tanahashi, I only view AJ as being on their level. (There is some kayfabe in there).

    Jay Briscoe/Steen in a bulletclub brawl could be fun as well.
    Last edited by makeo; 03-03-2014 at 08:32 PM.

  19. #19
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    I think Hero grew alot in the last few years and Id point you to his WWE and more recent stuff. Ive seen a bunch of his Japan work. Styles and Shelley is much more trapped in their style than Hero is. Shelley has improved but he still works like a Cruiserweight.

    I completely disagree with you about El Ligero. It has better gymnastics and its longer but it has less story and selling.

    I think Cole would do just fine against Tanahashi and his style fits pretty well.

    The Bullet Club is a perfect example. Corino should trunk up too. Hes a legend there.

    if Karl Anderson is on the Okada level so is Steen and Hero.

  20. #20
    makeo
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    I'd agree that Shelley is trapped in the super junior style. He just happens to be good at it.

    And I don't view that as a bad thing, as I view Hero as trapped in the RoH style with slight Jap leaning, and Shelley prolly makes more from his speciality.

    On your other points.

    The idea that Steen as a RoH mid-upper mid carder is on the same level as Anderson is laughable.

    One, (Steen) works part time in front of 1500 at best in the mid card of RoH, on about 6-8 gigs a month and whatever other bookings he can get.
    The other, (Anderson) is the #2 in the second hottest angle in the #2 promotion on the planet, pulls in a lot more money, mains occasionally, and does things like has decent spots on 30k attendance wrestlekingdom crowds.

    Jeez, say someone like Bobby Roode has an equal position or higher and I'd agree.

    Steen's no more than Eddie Kingston or Kris Travis ffs.

    Edit: And on the El ligero match. There's a fair bit of storytelling there. Just it is lucharesu storytelling. I understand it ain't for everyone though, and many don't get it.

    I would completely disagree with your opinion that it is "gymnastics"

    But, meh, be boring if we all thought the same. Many don't connect to lucharesu.

    Edit 2: *idly goes watch great sasuke vs taka*
    Last edited by makeo; 03-03-2014 at 11:10 PM.

  21. #21
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    Let me launch into my defense of Kevin Steen. Kevin Steen is a main eventer in two of the top wrestling companies in America. Kevin Steen has spent more days as PWG champion then any wrestler in history. Kevin Steen's ROH title reign makes him one of the top ROH champions in history. The only ROH World Champions who have a longer reign are Bryan Danielson, Nigel McGuinness and Samoa Joe. He had a longer reign as champion than Tyler Black, Austin Aries, Davey Richards, CM Punk and Takeshi Morishima. Kevin Steen had 3 seperate best of compilations put together by ROH.

    To call him a mid-upper mid carder is laughable when you put Styles on some sort of junkie indy pedestal. It just shows you need to do more homework.

    If we are going to Kayfabe a bit, In the 2013 PWI 500 Kevin Steen was in the top 10. He was PWI's best brawler for 3 straight years. He was part of the feud of the year for the first year of that.

    He is arguably the most popular wrestler on the indys. He has his own interview series from Highspots.

    And just so we are clear. I thought Taz was the best wrestler in the world working those same buildings as Kevin Steen. Dave Batista makes more money in pro wrestling then Prince Devitt. It doesnt make him a better pro wrestler.

    The reason i put Anderson on there was because hes clearly above Luke Gallows, Alex Shelley and The Bucks. All of who work those events you talk about.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-04-2014 at 12:21 AM.

  22. #22
    Oliver
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    ELLLLLLLL LIGERRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOO.

    *ahem*

    I'd love to see Hero vs Suzuki.

    EDIT: Sara, how come you say you'll 'kayfabe a bit' with PWI but not when discussing Steen's title reigns? Surely both are kayfabe?

    I've made my feelings clear on Steen elsewhere in his current guise, but I will say one thing - if I was going to do a big leagues comparison Steen would be the Cena of the indy circuit. He won't necessarily put on the best matches with everyone, but he's got charisma through the roof and will get you buys and be solid. Not as good as Stixx, though. I'd sign Stixx over Steen any day of the week.
    Last edited by Oliver; 03-04-2014 at 09:32 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    EDIT: Sara, how come you say you'll 'kayfabe a bit' with PWI but not when discussing Steen's title reigns? Surely both are kayfabe?
    The belts show your place on the card which is germane to the conversation. The Belt runs prove the point on where Steen stands in comparison to talents.

    those ratings take Kayfabe into account and thus should be taken with at least a grain of salt and perhaps with tongue firmly in cheek.

  24. #24
    makeo
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    Eh, sorry for late reply.

    Ok, to break it down for you Sara.

    Pwg means fuck all.

    I like it, you may like it, but it means fuck all. Ab-so-lute-fucking-ly fuck-all.

    It's not a top promotion.

    Even in the us.
    wwe, tna, roh and chikara are all laughably bigger.
    pwg is the same in terms of draw as pcw, swe in the uk, and similar to japw and czw in the us.

    Business wise. It has a cachet in the us, but it means nothing.

  25. #25
    makeo
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    Next, while Steen may have been an ex-Roh champ. (And I'm aware of the numbers, thanks, before you attempt to bore the shit out of me to prove a point.)
    He has no history of improving their numbers, no reason to indicate that he can, and largely indicates how far they have fallen and are just marking time.

  26. #26
    makeo
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    Next, go look at global tna revenue and draw and njpw revenue, and then see why AJ's achievements are at least closer than anything RoH does. Do my homework? Fuck off little girl, do yours.

    Or are you gonna claim doing 6-8 live shows at 1500 crowd, dvd's and failed ippv, with a syndication broadcast in the us at ~23% penetration is measurable?

    Please do. I need a laugh.

  27. #27
    makeo
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    And just so we're clear.

    I think Steen is a short, fat, brawler, that while he has some talent and could have made it to mid card in wwe, is too fucking lazy to get in shape, prefers his family, and is largely unemployable as more than a 1500 crowd a week upper mid card draw in RoH. A company that is slowly dying.

    I think Taz was a short, fat ECW draw who Heyman hid all his weaknesses in some great booking, but could not do more than 3k a week even at the height of the wrestling boom.

    And Devitt is miles above both as #4 in njpw with the bullet club angle and his super-junior past.

    Has he drawn Batista money yet? Of course not. Wwe has a far better position.

    You could make the spoke on the wheel argument for Batista far easier tho.

    Edit: Either way, I'd employ Stixx or Travis first. Shit, the fact I went down to . El Ligero proves it's own point.
    Last edited by makeo; 03-05-2014 at 01:57 PM.

  28. #28
    makeo
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    No disrespect, but Alex Shelley, the YB's and Doc are all miles ahead of. Steen as a global draw. Reason why? They mean something in NJPW and in some cases in Tna/WWE. Steen means nothing outside the smark north east us market. Where he can draw 1500 once a year.

    Edit: meh, bollocks to it. I'll go as far as say Dave Mastiff is Steen level. :-) He can draw 1000 twice a week main eventing the right cards as well!
    Last edited by makeo; 03-05-2014 at 02:35 PM.

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    Dude. Just edit all the post together. No need for 9 in a row.

  30. #30
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    No Worries, take your time responding. I understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    Eh, sorry for late reply.

    Ok, to break it down for you Sara.

    Pwg means fuck all.

    I like it, you may like it, but it means fuck all. Ab-so-lute-fucking-ly fuck-all.

    It's not a top promotion.

    Even in the us.
    wwe, tna, roh and chikara are all laughably bigger.
    pwg is the same in terms of draw as pcw, swe in the uk, and similar to japw and czw in the us.

    Business wise. It has a cachet in the us, but it means nothing.
    Sigh. You might have had me until you used the UK as an example because Steen draws for Preston City Wrestling and the like. If PWG was equal then he wouldn’t be such a huge draw there. He headlines shows over there.

    When it comes to who draws money in the US, the list goes like this WWE ROH PWG then the companies in the red chikara Pro and TNA (although that might be changing with them being much more economical)

    Its ok, you live in the in the hinterlands of wrestling, I don’t expect you to be up on the realities of wrestling in the states.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    Next, while Steen may have been an ex-Roh champ. (And I'm aware of the numbers, thanks, before you attempt to bore the shit out of me to prove a point.)
    He has no history of improving their numbers, no reason to indicate that he can, and largely indicates how far they have fallen and are just marking time.
    Except Steen was part of the largest expansion of ROH in its history expanding (thanks to the reach of Sinclair Broadcasting) to places like Louisiana, Nashville Tenn. Texas. PWG’s rise was on Steen’s back in the year he was gone from ROH. In the year he was gone from ROH, the buys went down, the attendance fell off and the Jim Cornette experiment failed. So they brought him back and now ROH draws better than it ever has in many places.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    Next, go look at global tna revenue and draw and njpw revenue, and then see why AJ's achievements are at least closer than anything RoH does. Do my homework? Fuck off little girl, do yours.

    Or are you gonna claim doing 6-8 live shows at 1500 crowd, dvd's and failed ippv, with a syndication broadcast in the us at ~23% penetration is measurable?

    Please do. I need a laugh.
    You don’t truly want to compare TNA’s profit margin to ROH’s profit margin over the last 3 years do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    Next, go look at global tna revenue and draw and njpw revenue, and then see why AJ's achievements are at least closer than anything RoH does. Do my homework? Fuck off little girl, do yours.

    Or are you gonna claim doing 6-8 live shows at 1500 crowd, dvd's and failed ippv, with a syndication broadcast in the us at ~23% penetration is measurable?

    Please do. I need a laugh.
    I pulled out the 2012 WrestlingObserver Results (first one I found and 2013 would be lower if the raitings and news are anything to go by. TNA’s average live event attendance in January 2013 went down 54% to 550 from the 1200 in January 2012) section for TNA live shows (not the IMPACT zone because it’s a free show) , and about sixty of them had an attendance number. TNA median attendance for paid shows was about 800 and average attendance was 1000. This is completely comparable to ROH. The median attendance for paid shows was 550 ish and the average was about 650 (over the time Kevin Steen was on top). This is all without the draw of national tv and expanding into new markets. For example the current average for 2014 is 900.

    TNA had a much higher overhead and talent cost for these shows. (Remember the Observer reported that TNA routinely has been losing money on some of its live events in late 2013 going into early 2014. TNA live events in the US draw poor attendance, Dont use the UK tours as the standard. Its not.) ROH easily makes as much on wrestling gates and draws as TNA does. (Lawyered)

    Just for fun lets compare the most recent US attendance for a PPV (or IPPV in the case of ROH) ROH drew in Pennsylvania National Guard Armory drew 1,100. TNA's Old School from the Mid Hudson Civic Center drew 1,500. Now is ROH BIGGER than TNA, no, is it comparable? Oh totally.

    Obviously, I mean why else would TNA partner with Wrestle-1 and ROH partner with New Japan? If New Japan was SO good and TNA was SO good then why wouldn’t the 2 clear number 2 companies partner up instead New Japan (the big dog in Japanese wrestling) chose ROH. All evidence seems to point away from your "facts".

    and for those PWG shows? Im not sure of the attendance (I dont see much in the way of numbers out of them) but they pack those shows in Cali. Sell outs.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    And just so we're clear.

    I think Steen is a short, fat, brawler, that while he has some talent and could have made it to mid card in wwe, is too fucking lazy to get in shape, prefers his family, and is largely unemployable as more than a 1500 crowd a week upper mid card draw in RoH. A company that is slowly dying.

    I think Taz was a short, fat ECW draw who Heyman hid all his weaknesses in some great booking, but could not do more than 3k a week even at the height of the wrestling boom.

    And Devitt is miles above both as #4 in njpw with the bullet club angle and his super-junior past.

    Has he drawn Batista money yet? Of course not. Wwe has a far better position.

    You could make the spoke on the wheel argument for Batista far easier tho.

    Edit: Either way, I'd employ Stixx or Travis first. Shit, the fact I went down to . El Ligero proves it's own point.
    Its why when Kevin Steen shows up to Preston City Wrestling he outdraws all your homegrown boys. Good try tho.

    TNA is the company that is slowly dying (putting the title on someone no one knows to be the face of the company, alienating its long term fans surrounding him with substandard brit talent) ROH has increased its attendance over the last two years, expanded into new markets and just entered a lucrative partnership with New Japan. Nice try tho.

    You describe Taz and Kevin Steen as short and fat like it’s a weakness to a good wrestler. Personally, I think Stan Hansen was a better wrestler than the ultimate warrior despite Stan not be ripped, tanned with visible abdominals. I think the Miracle Violence Connection (of Dr. Death Steve Williams and Terry Bam Bam Gordy) was a better tag team than the Road Warriors. Despite the Road Warriors being gassed to the gills and in superhuman shape. I preferred Mick Foley to the body builder HHH. I prefer Dean Ambrose to Roman Reigns. I prefer Bray Wyatt to Big E Langston (even tho I love them both). I don’t need my pro wrestlers to tanned ripped and oiled in thin bikini briefs or whatever you need to satisfy something inside you.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    No disrespect, but Alex Shelley, the YB's and Doc are all miles ahead of. Steen as a global draw. Reason why? They mean something in NJPW and in some cases in Tna/WWE. Steen means nothing outside the smark north east us market. Where he can draw 1500 once a year.
    Finally, in closing, this is where you expose yourself as ignorant of US indies. PWG is a West Coast Indy. ROH works all over the US. In fact, over the next few months, ROH will be working Wisconsin, Toronto, Texas, The Fairgrounds in Nashville, Sure they still work Philadelphia but they also work Tennessee, Alabama and Chicago. I could keep going, you might not realize how far these cities are apart but working Providence to Alabama (which is a pretty straight shot) is over 1,000 miles. To give you an idea of the distance Osaka to Tokyo is 240 miles, London to Edinburgh is 330 miles.

    To call ROH a Northeast Indy is misinformed. To call PWG a northeast indy is foolish. You don’t know what you are talking about which is unsurprising considering the nation of your birth.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-06-2014 at 02:46 AM.

  31. #31
    Oliver
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    Calling Britain the hinterlands of wrestling suggests you're missing a lot of crazy good stuff, Sara. Like, seriously crazy good. I think you'd love This Is Progress and be a huge Jimmy Havoc fan. Very much get an old ECW vibe from them. Their shows are all available for download at, I think, a tenner a pop (so fifteen bucks or so?) - well worth an investment. Southside is telling great stories at the moment and has been for the whole three odd years it has been active. PCW is an outstanding promotion that relies as much on homegrown talent as it does imports.

    Any country that can produce Zack Sabre Jr (who fucks shit up in Japan and would be an amazing replacement for Devitt if he is in fact going to WWE), Stixx, Ligero, Travis, PAC, MK McKinnan, Noam Dar and a lengthy list of great wrestlers outside of just that handful of names isn't the hinterlands of wrestling. Shows sell out up and down the country on a weekly basis based not just on one or two imports but on the overall strength of the card. I didn't pay to go an see Colt Cabana at Southside - I paid to see Noam Dar vs El Ligero. I didn't pay to see Jay Lethal at Southside - I paid to see Mk McKinnan and Zack Sabre Jr tear the roof of that motherfucker. I didn't pay to go to PCWs Too Good To Be Two to see any imports, I went to watch Mastiff, Cyanide, T-Bone and Rampage Brown beat the living crap out of each other in a tag match. You can suggest these people aren't draws all you like but to some people they are - in the way that to some people Steen is a draw, or Richards, or Edwards. Fuck, some people probably by tickets to see Michael Elgin, the weirdos.

    makeo - do you not like El Ligero, or just not rate him as highly as others? Man, we need a BritWres thread around here for me to get excited about upcoming shows.

  32. #32
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Oliver, fair enough, I probably should have said Hinterlands of American Wrestling. Its a not like you are behind the Iron Curtain or anything.

    I watch a bit of Brit wrestling here or there (enough to know who Paige's brother was btw) but I dont follow it hardcore. I probably also cranked up a little hard on makeo after he called me a bitch. I probably got my um "irish" up a little. (its why id never be a mod, occasionally it gets a bit heated tho i havent been suspended in a REALLY long time)

    But to say there are other draws for Preston City Wrestling doesnt mean that Steen isnt a draw (and his shows dont draw). Which is the main point there.

    But yeah, i took my shots at the UK and i have my own problems with the Jack.

    Hirooki Goto vs Katsuyori Shibata - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QloFFF6nDMo
    Peace offering
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-06-2014 at 04:55 AM.

  33. #33
    Senior Member
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    I do not want AJ Styles in New Japan.

  34. #34
    makeo
    Guest
    Eh?

    Would never call you a bitch. I don't know you.

    As for the temper it's fine.

    Anyway on to points.

    Steen doesn't draw for PCW, he's midcard. You know who does? Chris Masters.

    Guarenteed 1500 house with Masters. And main event..
    Steen,Richards, Hero, Bennett etc fill out the card.
    I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just saying it is.
    They're the midcarders. Same as Pac was in PWG.

    Next, you misunderstand drawing to being profitable.
    TNA draws far more than PWG, to claim otherwise is both counter-factual and assinine.
    Now, may PWG make a small profit, while TNA loses money?
    Sure. That wasn't what I said though, and your ad hominem about my level of understanding are thus worthless.

    Do you wanna compare revenue or profit?
    They're two different aspects. As you know. So wise up.

  35. #35
    makeo
    Guest
    As for other stuff.
    I'm very aware PWG is Cali. And where that is located. I'm also aware how much RoH draws in its attempts to expand into the Southern and mid-west areas that are actually served by Sinclair tv away from its traditional North East/Canadian base.

    To claim I don't is, again, assinine.
    I said Steen does not matter outside the NE/Canadian market.

    If he starts to...good.I actually quite enjoy him.

  36. #36
    makeo
    Guest
    Other stuff is.
    I post in sections as I'm usually on phablet and posting neat and editted takes ages. Soz for that.

    I'm actually Irish/Welsh, but plastic paddies do amuse me.

    Personally, I don't care what a wrestler looks like. I like Briscoe and Kingston etc, doesn't mean I don't realise that Steen or Taz won't make it or would never make it big because a lot of people do.

    It's not like I have homo-erotic fantasies about the next coming of Lex Luger.
    I think.


    As for the rest, have you considered counselling on post troubles hatred?


    Anyway peace offerings are always accepted. Now post more good matches somewhere, and enjoy them rather than waste time slogging each other, or I'll end up using a pc. And I'm lazy.

    And Oliver.: I think El ligero is a good brit level talent, and can main event the odd show.

    I view Travis, Stixx, Dar and possibly Mastiff as the ones that could go further atm.

    Madman Manson should be somewhere tho!

  37. #37
    Oliver
    Guest
    I'd love to see Dar get signed.

    Sara - thanks for that match, I haven't seen Wrestle Kingdom 8 yet so looking forward to the rest of the card now.

    Am I the only person that loves Devitt vs Okada from last July as much as some of the other Okada defences from last year, if not more? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc4C2lT5r0M

    Last edited by Oliver; 03-06-2014 at 04:32 PM.

  38. #38
    Oliver
    Guest
    Double posting, so sorry, but I want to bump this for the New Japan Cup starting this weekend. Anybody got any favourites to win it all? I'm sort of expecting Shibata to go all the way so he can challenge Okada for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship seeing as Okada said he had to win this to get a shot at New Beginning but I think an argument could be made for almost anyone in the field to win, especially as they can challenge for either title. I don't know about the Devitt deal, but I'd love him to win and lift himself out of the Junior division for the last bit of his run there. Don't really see it ending well for K.E.S., but otherwise I could see pretty much anyone winning.

  39. #39
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    Shibata is winning imo

  40. #40
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    you misunderstand drawing to being profitable.
    TNA draws far more than PWG, to claim otherwise is both counter-factual and assinine.
    Now, may PWG make a small profit, while TNA loses money?
    Sure. That wasn't what I said though, and your ad hominem about my level of understanding are thus worthless.
    Do you wanna compare revenue or profit?
    They're two different aspects. As you know. So wise up.
    Do you not know what a draw is? Draw is short for the words drawing money. Do you know who draws at the Impact Zone? Nobody, they give that show away to people waiting in line. When I say draw, I mean for example, are you drawing to capacity in the buildings you are running. Lets look at PWG at the All Star Weekend X and Lockdown 2014. Both are big events. There are some differences. PWG takes place from the American Legion Post #308 Reseda, CA (Wrestling capacity 400-500 depending on standing room and guardrail placement) and TNA Lockdown took place from the BankUnited Center on the campus of University of Miami in Miami Florida. (a capacity of over 8,000 people for wrestling). Wow like these companies are in two different leagues! What was the draw for All Star Weekend X? Super No Vacancy, they turned people away. All Star Weekend X was estimated at over 500 people each night, which makes the total draw over 1000 people. TNA Lockdown drew approximately 900 tickets sold.

    TNA Lockdown was a Pay Per View from a major arena in a city of over people. PWG ran an American Legion Hall in a city of which has a population of 74,000 and out drew them. PWG drew over 100% capacity of its building and TNA drew 12% of theirs. ROH blows these numbers out of the water. You shifted the argument to PWG which doesn’t even have a TV Product and still PWG outdraws TNA. You are wrong. You are imagining that TNA’s draw in the UK is comparable to their draw in the states, Its not.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    As for other stuff.
    I'm very aware PWG is Cali. And where that is located. I'm also aware how much RoH draws in its attempts to expand into the Southern and mid-west areas that are actually served by Sinclair tv away from its traditional North East/Canadian base.

    To claim I don't is, again, assinine.
    I said Steen does not matter outside the NE/Canadian market.

    If he starts to...good.I actually quite enjoy him.
    If Steen is a draw in PWG (and he is) and Steen only is a draw in the northeast (like you said) then how can both be true? So Either Steen is a draw all over America (which he is) or he isn’t a draw in PWG (But he is) so you cannot be correct in both statements that you know where California is and the Steen is only a draw in the Northeast. Ergo, I thought you were just ignorant instead of blatantly prima facie incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    I'm actually Irish/Welsh, but plastic paddies do amuse me.
    Oh cute, Im an Irish citizen and spent almost every summer there growing up. I probably would have grown up in Northern Ireland if my parents hadn’t been driven from their home by Loyalist Paramilitaries while the British government sat by and did nothing but sanction the de facto ethnic cleansing. My grandmother and my parents moved to The States but my mother’s family moved to Donegal. Where I spent most of my summers growing up. Had my first job in Ireland, first kiss, and a good bit of other firsts.

    First time I met a welsh man he was carrying a gun and questioning my father when we were going to visit my grandfather’s grave. I’ll give you 3 guesses what his job was … Personal experience means saying Welsh doesn’t change how I feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    Personally, I don't care what a wrestler looks like. I like Briscoe and Kingston etc, doesn't mean I don't realise that Steen or Taz won't make it or would never make it big because a lot of people do.
    Taz made it big. Perhaps not as wrestler (tho he did end Angle’s streak of YEARS in MSG and was the first ECW champion to carry the title on WWE TV in a main event) but eventually he did.

    Steen has charisma and IS a draw and would easily be a draw for Japanese talent to work. His work with the Bucks means he is perfect for the Bullet Club (although his current Face turn in ROH will make it tough for the New Japan/ROH shows here). I look forward to the ROH/New Japan shows because I think ROH has the talent, if not the exposure to work solid matches.

    Quote Originally Posted by makeo View Post
    As for the rest, have you considered counselling on post troubles hatred?
    Why would I do that? The Struggle isn’t over, its just changed arenas, and it feels like we are winning. Sinn Fein has exploded over my lifetime in a political force on both sides of the boarder and the system bends towards freedom. Demographics and politics has always been the story of Ireland and Republicanism is growing strong. God bless John Downey.

    ROH has started to announce the Japanese stars announced for the supershows in Toronto (5/10) and NYC (5/17).

    They announced current IWGP Champion Kazuchika Okada,

    I think they will probably send just a few stars. The most obvious being IWGP Intercontinental Champion ( hey that makes sense) Hiroshi Tanahashi, IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Champion Kota Ibushi,

    Personally im hoping for Devitt, Shinsuke Nakamura Gedo, and Jado. 


    For the New Japan cup im leaning Shinsuke Nakamura or a Bullet Club member (im looking at you Devitt). You cant count out the Bullet Club (It would be a good time to give Anderson a bit of a rub if Devitt is leaving, If he is staying you have to build him to the top title) due to Devitt being undefeated in the Best of the Super Juniors.

    Prince Devitt has not signed a new deal with NJPW and is only signed through the New Japan Cup. He isn't going to ROHxNJPW shows in Toronto and New York while it seems the rest of Bullet Club are implied to be going. (OMG if ROH sells that killer Bullet Club tshirt through the website ill buy 3)

    Karl Anderson did just tweet :

    This is the beginning of @fergaldevitt 's 9th year with #njpw..

    and

    My 7th year. @fergaldevitt 's 9th year. Full time. Not one tour a year bullshit. Every. Single. Tour. Every. Single. Year. #njpw
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-14-2014 at 03:50 AM.

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