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Thread: 2018 NXT: Takeover LIVE Discussion Thread

  1. #81
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    So Meltzer rated Almas/Gargano 5 Stars, first WWE match to get 5 stars in 7 years. I love the responses of people, so are very happy, some weren't impressed with the match, and my favorite, others list a lot of matches they thought that were better in the last 7 years. I know I wanted a screwy finish, but I think the clean finish is what helped it get 5 stars. So to me, sure, I guess everything impressed Meltzer enough and maybe that's what they are going for. Also, I guess if you want Gargano to move on, and Almas to get closer and look like a legit champion, this was the right finish. But I don't know man, I disagree but I digress. What ya'all think? 5 Stars?

  2. #82
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    I have no problem with the five-star designation. I don't get hung up with ratings but it was a spectacular match. I didn't watch it thinking "this is the best match in NXT history," but that's because I was so drawn into the match. There was not a lot of down time either and the pace was fast for many tough sequences.

  3. #83
    It was a five star match to me and probably the best WWE match I've seen since Sami Zayn vs. Neville back in 2014. If it wasn't to you LWO, that's cool too. Bottom line is, as Numb said, the match was super and not a whole lot matters beyond that. I'm just hoping this puts an end to the whole "MELTZER HATES WWE!" thing considering he gave Tanahashi-Suzuki only 4 1/2 on the same day. Then again, probably not.


  4. #84
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    HAHAHA.... oh, that wouldn't die from the die hards.

    Don't get me wrong, I've never watched a Takeover show from beginning to end until Saturday. I just haven't had time, and my internet connection was really slow. We just upgraded to cable WiFi, and I watched WWE Network all weekend without drag for the first time ever in my house. So yeah, I watched Takeover for one reason and one reason only, my guy Andreas Cien Almas. And any 5 Star match he can get, I am there for it. To be honest, I really, really liked the match. Best match I've seen in WWE for a long time.

  5. #85
    I watched the show only due to circumstance (I had a job where the show happened to be on), but I would've watched the Sombra match afterwards regardless. The funniest thing is, at least in my opinion, I still don't think this was Almas' best career performance. He was excellent in the match but the star was by far Gargano; he was the straw that stirred the drink as it were, and I say this as someone who's always thought he was far too vanilla to succeed while Almas was can't miss. But yeah, as great as Almas was in this, his best match (and easily still the most important match of his career mind you) was the Atlantis match in CMLL. Not that Atlantis doesn't bring everything he's got, but Sombra MADE that match. It's truly special and is probably the reason this match with Gargano even existed; I'm not sure WWE signs him if not for that unbelievable performance and the fact he unmasked after. So while I'd put Gargano-Almas ahead of Atlantis-Sombra in terms of match quality, in terms of importance and Sombra's own personal performance, the Atlantis match is still tops. I find it hard to believe that'll ever be topped for him honestly unless he main events a Wrestlemania (which I unfortunately still think is a stretch).


  6. #86
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    You know, I completely agree with that. Maybe that was my deal. I've seen La Sombra do better matches. So at the end, I was left thinking Gargano shouldn't have lost cleanly because he was star. Almas I've seen in better matches as La Sombra, so while I know he can go, it just seemed like Gargano should have not lost cleanly. You know, that's why these boards exist, sometimes you need to talk it out. But I will say, I think Almas is still a can't miss star. I just worry about mainstream fans buy in. But this NXT title reign seems to be exactly what he needs to gain credibility with them, and get confidence in himself.

  7. #87
    So were a ton of luchadors who came in though. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that Sombra has reached the heights he has but there's still a long way to go. The WWE right now still can't figure out how to use Gran Metalik (who I'd argue is a better overall in ring performer than Sombra), Lince Dorado and the rest of the luchadors they have correctly, and until Zelina Vega showed up Sombra was being used so bad he was, according to people in the know, seriously considering leaving and going back to Mexico. And historically WWE's treatment of luchadors is...yeesh. Since AAA formed in 1992 the WWE has had the following luchadors wrestle for them; Abismo Negro, Del Rio, El Canek, Eddie, Heavy Metal, Hector Garza, Jerry Estrada, Juventud Guerrera, the original Mistico/Sin Cara, Mr. Augila (Essa Rios), Negro Casas, Psicosis, both Perro Aguayo's, Super Crazy and a slew of others I'm probably forgetting. Of those names only Eddie and Rey were ever truly given a shot and in both instances Vince had to do so kicking and screaming, and some of those guys listed (particularly Santo, Casas and Garza) were/are all time greats. Certainly some of them failed themselves (looking at you Del Rio and Sin Cara) but even then can we honestly say WWE truly got how to use them?

    Will it be different this time? I certainly hope so and Sombra's work right now gives me hope. But history and the way the other luchadors are being used right now leave me more cautiously optimistic than truly optimistic, and that's without taking into consideration how some NXT performers have been used upon being called up.


  8. #88
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Man, you ain't wrong about Vince in Luchadors. I had hopes after Rey and Eddie, because both made Vince a lot of money and I saw him try with Del Rio, but in retrospect Del Rio was his own worst enemy. Forget the whole charisma blackhole, I never bought that. I think he just had a natural assholeness about him that made him very hateable. When he tried to turn face, then got ride of Ricardo, that basically killed his character and everything that made him unique. I worry that the failures of Del Rio Mistico, along with Kalisto never being able to take Rey's place (which was VERY unrealistic), will turn Vince off to luchadors. Gran Metalik might be the one who's suffering the most. Though if Vince is open to doing lucha trios matches, at least for a while, with Kalisto, Metalik, and Dorado, and allow them to do straight lucha rules, you could build them up. I want to be hopeful. I grew up with my dad telling me that lucha was the real wrestling... LOL... and hearing stories of Chavo Guerrero defending the LA territory from that bastard Roddy Piper. I want to be hopeful, but I'm just so jaded. Almas as NXT champion gave me hope, I watched the whole NXT Takeover and I'm seriously giving WWE it's last chance to me.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    So Meltzer rated Almas/Gargano 5 Stars, first WWE match to get 5 stars in 7 years. I love the responses of people, so are very happy, some weren't impressed with the match, and my favorite, others list a lot of matches they thought that were better in the last 7 years. I know I wanted a screwy finish, but I think the clean finish is what helped it get 5 stars. So to me, sure, I guess everything impressed Meltzer enough and maybe that's what they are going for. Also, I guess if you want Gargano to move on, and Almas to get closer and look like a legit champion, this was the right finish. But I don't know man, I disagree but I digress. What ya'all think? 5 Stars?
    You know what the scariest part of that paragraph is? The Second Summer of Punk was seven years ago.

    I'm probably going to rewatch this later. My initial reaction, as above, was that I didn't immediately love it as much as some of the older NXT matches which really chimed with me. I think Neville/Zayn is phenomenal, like so damned good, and having mentioned it above I went back and rewatched Cesaro/Zayn IV and I still pop constantly for that match, especially the one count after the Swiss Death which is just frigging unbelievable. But the new buzz that getting that 5 stars makes me want to go and revisit it and really focus on it, so I'll do that tonight.

  10. #90
    Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Hope you enjoy it Oli.

    I did enjoy the Cena Punk match, but for last Saturday was the best match since Taker HBK all the way back at Mania 25.

  11. #91
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    Man, I must still be the only guy ever who thought Zayn/Neville was not wonderful. It was good, no doubt, but I remember it being sooo melodramatic. Zayn dramatically holding the title and looking at it, looking at Neville, looking at the crowd, oh my, is the good guy that never cheats going to cheat? Nope, he didn't cheat.

    Maybe I need to rewatch it though, it's been ages.

  12. #92
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    I love Neville/Zayn but not greatest match in NXT levels. Its also a match where for me, its overshadowed by the KO post match angle. Hindsight being 20/20 and all but i wonder what would have happened if they turned Sami heel then, and actually brought Neville up to main roster as a bitter heel then, and tried KO as a face who was concerned for his friend Sami's change in attitude or have them be big time heels together in NXT.

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