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Thread: NXT General Discussion

  1. #1481
    Senior Member ZeroTolerance's Avatar
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    Marked. The fuck. Out.

  2. #1482
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    UK division matches are so much fun. Crowd certainly helps too.

  3. #1483
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    Montez Ford is fun to watch. He's going to be a star.

  4. #1484
    Wet Dream Machine SkitZ's Avatar
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    I thought the same thing when they first showed up. Montez is high energy and fans connect with that.

    According to the Main Page, Cole / Fish / O'Reilly have been branded "The Undisputed Era". I'm assuming Middleton made an error though and that the stable's actually gonna be called CFO. Thoughts?

  5. #1485
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    I guess it's... both? WWE Shop tweeted this so I assume it's official.



    I'm just not excited about this stable, but I'm a big Adam Cole detractor so it was probably always gonna be that way. Fish & O'Reilly will probably have some fun matches but they're kind of bland, so we'll see.

  6. #1486
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    O'Reilly, to me, is like Gargano. Good talent, but he's every indy wrestler I've ever watched.

  7. #1487
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    I'd agree with that, a fine hand but not really anything that makes him stand out, especially now with so many people doing MMA influenced offense. I prefer Fish because at least his look is a little different, even though he's functionally pretty similar.

  8. #1488
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    I've really only enjoyed Adam Cole out of those three guys, but this is based on the very little I've seen of them, and mostly from New Japan. Like it's been already mentioned above, they seem like good performers but don't have much of a standout personality to me. Hopefully their time in NXT will help in this regard. I am a bit excited to see what they'll bring to the table, though. Beatdowns like they've been doing doesn't really showcase much of their talents, but it's a good way to introduce them as a threat which I can dig.

  9. #1489
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    I have such little interest in these three fuckers. I've not watched a second of NXT since Takeover and I'm not sure much is going to change that right now. I'm keeping up with it, but it's devolving badly in terms of being quality, and interesting, week to week programming.

    Don't want to sound like a wrestling hipster or anything, but I sort of miss when it was just a weekly show, before the Takeover events kicked in. At least then I'd believe anything could happen on the show. Now it just has the standard WWE cycle of important things only happening when the special event is on, really. I mean, aside from Joe winning it on a house show the NXT Championship hasn't changed hands outside of a special event since Neville won it at Arrival. The tag titles haven't changed hands outside of one since the first Revival win in 2015, and the women's strap has never changed hands on a non-Takeover show, with the exclusion of Paige's first win. Kind of makes me not enjoy it as much.

    I also just don't think there are that many interesting guys now. It's like WWE have filtered off the cream of the crop from 2005-2015 indy feds and TNA, and now that they've moved up they're desperately trying to fill the void with the second rung of talent who are good, sometimes great, wrestlers, but have characters as thin as a sheet of paper. Or they're Eric Young, who's the other way around...

    At least the women's division seems to be picking up a bit. Kind of excited to see where the title goes now, if Sane is one of the competitors in this fatal fourway thing I imagine one of the others will be Moon (as the hometown girl, possibly the favourite, and I'd honestly thought this would be when they pulled the trigger on her and put her over Asuka, but anyway) and then the other two spots are wide open. Will they continue with Riot and Storm and have them bulk out the spots? They were certainly fascinating when in a fourway before. Or do they have the Iconic Duo work together to combat the other two, like they did in their fourway? Or maybe an outside bet, someone like Aliyah or Bianca Belair? Curious to see what happens. As I say, I honestly think this is where Moon finally gets the title, which would be fine, but really I want to see one or other of the Iconic Duo get the belt and lord it over the division for a while.

    Whilst I assume we're heading for Cole vs McIntyre in the Battle of Head And Shoulders, I hope Almas' recent work isn't going unnoticed. Something's finally clicking with him, and once he stops running his cock into people's faces for a near fall I think he'll have a really solid moveset to move up the card, along with a good character. That's all I ask - the first few years of NXT had such good characters, but since that initial class moved on in the first draft other than Roode nobody has really nailed something down. Strong had all that background stuff, but he never really wrestled it in the ring. Even SaNItY or however it's written keep saying they're here to cause chaos but the most chaotic thing they've done is swap tag partners in a match, really. Kind of wish they'd been the guys who turned up at the end of Brooklyn.
    Last edited by Oliver; 09-15-2017 at 07:09 AM.

  10. #1490
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    There was this wave of excitement when they were bringing in all these bigger indy names, people who had tons of experience in the ring and really just needed a bit of polishing to prepare for the WWE product. Now that the novelty is gone with that, they have to get back to where they kind of were before with the lesser names.

    I think they're doing really well in that regard, though. I dig the mix of guys they have now. They have more seasoned names like Cien Almas, Aleister Black, Kassius Ohno and Ember Moon, along with some wrestlers with decent experience like Pete Dunne, Tyler Bates and Ruby Riot, and some home-grown talent that's doing pretty well like the Street Profits, Authors of Pain, Velveteen Dream and Aliyah. It's not really that "indy-fied" version that NXT felt like it had for a while, so it's taking some adjustment but I'm liking what they have.

  11. #1491
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    I'm with Oliver on the idea that the weekly product just doesn't grab me much anymore. I think for a while they had the balance down but with Dusty passing and Ward moving shows it's just not what it was. I think they have plenty of fine talent but at most I'm likely to catch Takeovers only at this point.

  12. #1492
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    It's kind of easier to just catch the Takeovers at this point, too. Although doing so would have missed the Roddy/Roode story entirely because of the weird decision not to pay that off at Brooklyn.

    I'm kind of mixed on it at the moment - I'll grab an episode if something on the card makes me want to watch it, but if something doesn't do that I tend to just grab a recap of the episode from somewhere and read it to get the jist.

    I am glad to see someone more 'homegrown' come through like the Velveteen Dream, AoP, and Street Profits, though. On a lot of the earlier NXT episodes it was guys like that who held the show together. And hey, the greates NXT Champion is still Bo Dallas.

  13. #1493
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    What a criminally underrated run that is now. I will always love Bo sneaking back on the show to wrestle Sami Zayn (as a generic luchador no less) and being physically carried out of the building.

  14. #1494
    So....about that three team match at the next Takeover.....wow

  15. #1495
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    Triple H announced on Facebook the next Takeover is called War Games and said “back after 20 years.” I’m sure it won’t be like the original War Games but I’m intrigued.

    EDIT: it will be two rings.

  16. #1496
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    I know a lot of people are excited, but I'm kind of dubious about this. Why bring back a three way version after all this time? The only other three team version was by far the worst, although I grant that this time they won't have to deal with Warrior, Stevie Ray, trapdoors, magic smoke, and a company trying to shoot itself in the foot. Still, the dynamic seems awkward, as do the actual makeup of the teams. Two make sense, but the third just seems thrown together.

    Also, all the best War Games were essentially measured in blood, so can a modern WWE War Games be any better than the watered down Hell in a Cell matches we've gotten for the past 8 years or so? I may check it out for curiosity sake but beyond the initial pop I'm not sure this looks so promising.

  17. #1497
    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    Having not been a watcher when War Games was around can someone point me in the direction of a decent one so I can get the general idea of what to expect. Two rings sounds interesting if done well, chaotic and unfocused if not. Because it is going to be done in tribute I'm sure they will pull out all stops to make it really good but I'd love to see an example beforehand too.

  18. #1498
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    I strongly recommend the '92 War Games match, From WCW Wrestlewar. One of my favorite matches of the 90s.

  19. #1499
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I know a lot of people are excited, but I'm kind of dubious about this. Why bring back a three way version after all this time? The only other three team version was by far the worst, although I grant that this time they won't have to deal with Warrior, Stevie Ray, trapdoors, magic smoke, and a company trying to shoot itself in the foot. Still, the dynamic seems awkward, as do the actual makeup of the teams. Two make sense, but the third just seems thrown together.
    This is essentially where I'm at with it. I could have easily bought in to them doing Sanity vs Undisputed as the match, either with four members each and they both add a new face or sticking with the three. But the third team feels a little bit forced and definitely brings back bad memories.

    That said, there was a whole lot of nonsense around that 98 one - especially the stipulation that whoever made the winning pin got the shot at Goldberg, which essentially made parts of it feel like a nine man fight rather than a group of teams. In fact, the only really good thing that came out of it was that DDP won, resulting in Goldberg's best (possibly only good?) ever match, WCW screwing up Halloween Havoc badly in terms of timing, and then the last ever time that Nitro won the ratings war against Raw. There were far too many shit parts about the 98 War Games to make it a really reliable barometer of how this one will go but I'm dubious - especially when you factor in that just having three different teams of three people is confusing enough to watch.

    We'll see.

    It seems like Almas might be making a move, though, so I'm all for that. Hopefully he takes the title off of McIntyre and I can start watching again.

  20. #1500
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    Oh sure, this will be better than the '98 version. I don't think WWE is physically capable of putting on something as empirically bad as that, it just couldn't happen in terms of the backstage politics and bad ideas.

    I just don't think it sounds THAT good either. It's an awkward format and doesn't seem to fit that well. But yeah, we'll see.

    Oh, and in my opinion Goldberg has more good matches than he's given credit for.

  21. #1501
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    The submission element is an interesting one, though, I do think that - given how the original matches were all submission (and essentially I Quit rules, really) for the finish and that was it, there weren't any pinfalls or anything. Can they recreate that sort of visceral feel to the bout if they are running it in a PG setting?

    Two of the others to check out along with the 92 one are the 91 one (Horsemen and Zbysko, with Arn sitting out, vs Steiners, Pillman, and Sting), which I think always gets a bit of a bum deal due to the nature of the finish (and the very presence of Sid, but that's by the by) and the excellent (in my opinion second best) one at the Bash 87, the very first WarGames, between Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, & JJ Dillon vs. Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Road Warrior Hawk, Road Warrior Animal, & Paul Ellering. There were actually two under the Bash 87 banner because it was a tour of three shows, the first and third of which had a WarGames bout on - the first is slight better than the second (which swaps Dillon out and replaces him with The War Machine/Big Boss Man) in my opinion, but as is often the case with these things the originals are the better ones.

  22. #1502
    The 1996 War Games match is tremendous too. It gets a bum rap because it's considered to be part of the "great undercard, bad main event scene" era of WCW, but the storytelling is tremendous. You had the nWo still fresh, WCW trying to fight back and then the added story of Sting's allegiances becoming murky after he "attacked" Lex Luger on the Nitro before Fall Brawl 1996. All that hangs over this match and, while it's not a great match in the technical sense, it's very dramatic and a must watch.


  23. #1503
    The Brain
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    I have to admit I find the '91 match grossly overrated, but yeah most of the ones from the 80s are pretty dynamite. Along with the submission element there is, of course, the blood element, which is a major factor in the best War Games matches, so that's tough to replicate.

    I am way into the '96 match too Cult, good call. I love Luger crawling up the ramp after Sting when he makes his exit, faced with the reality that the guy he took for granted is no longer putting up with his bullshit. Kicked off one of the best character arcs in wrestling history (and I ain't talking about Sting, believe me!).

  24. #1504
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    The manager side of things, too. I love seeing Dillon and Ellering in the cage getting their just desserts. I wonder if they'll play up Ellering's past experience of the match on NXT TV.

  25. #1505
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    Oh yes, I loved Dillon getting the crap kicked out of him in the 80s. On the flip side though, the '94 version would have been infinitely better if they hadn't replaced Meng with frickin' Colonel Parker.

    Speaking of Ellering, funny that he's now come full circle to War Games again so late in his career. Speaking of Ellering, is there anyone who watches week to week who can tell me if he really adds much to the AoP act? I mostly just watch the specials these days and, outside of the video packages where he's reading from the book, I'm not sure how much use he really is.

  26. #1506
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    I don't know, they seem to rely on him less and less as a promo guy. I've always assumed Akam and Rezar couldn't speak good enough English, but whilst Rezar is Albanian Akam is Canadian, so that screwed that thought up.

    I'd never looked into AoP much - Akam has amateur wrestling background and was a 2016 Olympic prospect, which is amazing to me considering I don't think it's really been played up on TV. And Rezar is an ex-MMA guy with a winning (4-2) record. Why don't they make more of these things? Or have I just missed out?

    Also, what in the blue hell is an 'Ab Off'?

  27. #1507
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    I think Ellering is just there to add presence and help the two young lads behind the scenes. If you have someone who's been in the business as long as Ellering has its good to use him. Their backgrounds aren't played up because well, its not their gimmick.. Although it would be nice if they added more of that athletic background to their moveset.

  28. #1508
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    A manager doesn't need to be as boisterous as Paul Heyman to add to an act. Ellering adds an extra facet to every one of their matches that they can use if they'd like when putting them together. He also lends them credibility, and I'll bed, as Lazy said, lends a ton behind the scenes. He knows how the Road Warriors became so popular, and can impart that to those two and help guide them. I see him almost as less of an on-screen manager and more of a shoot manager and mentor that they use on screen. I'll bet he's loving it, too.

    Let's not forget one of the biggest parts of having Ellering in their act, though: his size. Ellering is a pretty normal sized dude, like anyone else in the arena. When you have him walk out and these two guys come up behind him and dwarf him, it instantly gets over how massive they are in the mind of the fan. Much more than two similar sized guys walking out together and especially when there's other big dudes on the roster. Without saying a word, he's saying so much for them in that entrance alone. That's the kind of thing that comes in handy when they get called up to the main roster.

  29. #1509
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    That's actually a great point about the size differential. I'd be interested to hear what Ellering does backstage as well. Did he do much to actually manage LOD back in the day? I always figured he was just an onscreen guy but I also never thought about it very much before.

  30. #1510
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    He took some of the burden of Animal. Never a bad thing. Loved Hawk but even as a kid Animal's shouting annoyed me.

  31. #1511
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    I meant backstage and with bookings and such, but that's a good point as well, haha. Certainly the sweetest three words in a Road Warriors promo are "tell 'em, Hawk!".

  32. #1512
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Looks like they're tweaking the format of WarGames a bit for the upcoming match. One member of each team starting, then the two remaining members of each team join at set intervals.

    Also they've not confirmed a roofed structure, just that there are sides of steel. Kind of interesting if they go without one.

    Thoughts on the above? I'm not personally bothered by the changes, but it feels odd to be honouring the originals so much through the build and then change the format away from it.

  33. #1513
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    Damn, isn't it three man teams in this version? Feels like they're going to rush to the "Match Beyond", which to some extent eliminates the point of War Games. Some of the best stuff in War Games is seeing extended action from the early guys, which then has significance later in the match. Also not sure why you wouldn't do a roof... even TNA had a roof, dammit! And if you can't press slam a guy up into the roof or swing around and kick people from the ceiling, then what are we really doing??

    Seriously though, it won't ruin the match but I don't feel like the changes really make the match any better. I'd prefer the more traditional format, but we'll see.

  34. #1514
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    I think the changes are being done to streamline the match.

    If you're going to do three minute intervals with six guys, that's going to eat up almost 20 minutes of time on a two-two and a half hour PPV. If you're going to do less than three minutes, what's the point?

    I don't mind the idea of the heels getting this big three minute advantage, and leaving AoP out until the final two to come in and clean house after Roddy has spent 15 minutes trying to stay alive.

    I can take or leave the roof. If the cage is two of the standard WWE cages, what's the point? It's so high that the roof is inconsequential anyway. I could see them holding off on the roof to maintain Hell in a Cell.

    It's streamlining and I don't mind it at all. This match will probably go a half hour plus, and I personally don't need the first 20 minutes to be inconsequential.

  35. #1515
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    having Watched all the Wargames matches, i'm not really a big fan of concept or any concept where basically the faces get beat down for fifteen mins while the other faces look on.. it rarely works for me. Its cool visual, two cages and all but i'd almost prefer just a straight up 3 on 3 match.

  36. #1516
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    I mean, traditional War Games rules say the first guys get 5 minutes but then only 2 minute intervals after that, and it seemed to work pretty well even with more guys total (10 as opposed to 9). I also think in the best War Games matches the opening minutes are anything but inconsequential, but it can happen.

    I also think the faces being at a disadvantage until the end works really well for the dynamic of the match. It basically allows you to do an escalating succession of house of fire and cut off sequences, building up to the big climax. That's if it's done well, of course.

  37. #1517
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I think the changes are being done to streamline the match.

    If you're going to do three minute intervals with six guys, that's going to eat up almost 20 minutes of time on a two-two and a half hour PPV. If you're going to do less than three minutes, what's the point?

    I don't mind the idea of the heels getting this big three minute advantage, and leaving AoP out until the final two to come in and clean house after Roddy has spent 15 minutes trying to stay alive.

    I can take or leave the roof. If the cage is two of the standard WWE cages, what's the point? It's so high that the roof is inconsequential anyway. I could see them holding off on the roof to maintain Hell in a Cell.

    It's streamlining and I don't mind it at all. This match will probably go a half hour plus, and I personally don't need the first 20 minutes to be inconsequential.
    I can see that (and also certainly see the scenario where it almost becomes a four/six on one assault on Roddy for six minutes, or at least some of that three minutes. Strong's almost the perfect guy to have play the face in peril role against those odds, especially with the way NXT have built him up) and I think it works just as you lay it out, which is why I wasn't particularly bothered by the changes.

    As far as timing goes, there's never been a bell time longer that about 23 minutes, I found out whilst watching them back. Even with the new rules, they set you up for having all nine guys in the ring eleven minutes after the opening bell (as opposed to 15-19 minutes with the old format of one guy joining every two minutes after the five minute opening spell). I'd be surprised if this has significantly more than 20 minutes bell to bell, if not less than 20.

    Watching the set up from this week, I can't help but feel there would have been more interest in doing two teams - The Era inc. new recruit Strong vs Sanity and AoP (with Dain and Ellering on the outside). You then get the friction on the 'face' side of Sanity and AoP over the titles against a more cohesive 'heel' side of The Era. You could then have run the classic rules rather than change it like they have, and have had something that was akin to the greater WarGames matches rather than the rotten 98 version. But, it is what it is.

  38. #1518
    The Brain
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    Also, what's with the other teams being kept in shark cages until they come in? Did WWE buy shark cages in bulk recently or something?

  39. #1519
    Of course, didn't you see the sale at the Shark Cage Superstore? Buy 2 Get 1 Free. Anyway, in keeping with this match, looks like original Sanity member Sawyer Fulton was released.

  40. #1520
    The Brain
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    Don't think I ever saw him. Was he any good?

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