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Thread: Dolph Ziggler

  1. #41
    That's why is a "reality era" promo. Deliver on Twitter and talking about the behind the scenes stuff. I don't like the breaking of kayfabe but I think is something the WWE is doing alot the last couple of years with the B+ players and "small" superstar storylines like the Sheamus one.

  2. #42
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    There can be a blend of the two.. I think I'm okay with now more than ever because everything is so corprate now, these people do thousands of interviews, podcasts out of character, make a wish stuff etc...that there is almost no line between the two..

    When your in character though, winning should be the main goal though. Like some Dolph promos I really feel his frustration of doing what he feels he does best but always coming up short.. Dolph should be upset that all his hard work is not really seen on TV. That type of stuff can work and resonate with the crowd without breaking character

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLSHITMANIA View Post
    That's why is a "reality era" promo. Deliver on Twitter and talking about the behind the scenes stuff. I don't like the breaking of kayfabe but I think is something the WWE is doing alot the last couple of years with the B+ players and "small" superstar storylines like the Sheamus one.
    Even those weren't rooted in breaking kayfabe, though.

    Sheamus is beating up on smaller guys because he is a "real man" who is bigger and stronger than them. He's asserting his dominance because he is an alpha and he can. He's never said anything about how he deserves a push because he's bigger or dropped "insider" terms, he just talks about how he can beat you up because you're a tiny little man and it's time for the "real men" to come back to WWE.

    Even with Bryan it wasn't "we won't push you" Vince Russo insider bullshit. They simply said the he was a "B+ Player", not a main event player, and used it as an excuse for why he couldn't get it done and why he couldn't have a title shot. Again, it came back to winning. It wasn't "you're held down and we won't put a belt on you", it was "we don't think you're good enough, so we won't give you a chance to fight for the belt". It was a backstage politics angle done right, still rooted in winning a prize. Bryan wasn't asking for the belt, he was asking for a chance to win the belt or to earn a contendership.
    Last edited by Team Farrell; 04-24-2015 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #44
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    I see the subtle differences, but I still don't think it is anything worth complaining about. It doesn't break the fourth wall at all when real combat sports say the same thing, and it doesn't break their wall into looking fake.

  5. #45
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    Dolph's been a divisive figure for the past couple of years. I remember when he cashed in MITB a few years back and the place absolutely erupted, he really felt like he was about to become a real player for the company, but for whatever reason that hasn't panned out and now the audience aren't really united behind him anymore. Sure, he still has his fans, but also a good number of detractors. Even so, he was probably still involved in some of my favourite WWE work of 2016.

    So, with that in mind - is the current run he is on and his work with Roode going to break that cycle at all, or are we looking at Dolph continuing to be what is, for someone with his talent, a bit stagnant?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    He's not going to get anywhere trading roll-ups with Roode, that's for sure.

    I mean, the reason it didn't pan out when he cashed in MitB is as much because Swagger kicked him in the head as it is anything else. Who knows what might have happened without that.

    I think the real moment they could have capitalised on Dolph is after that Survivor Series match with The Authority. Guy saved his job by defeating three men that night, as well as fighting off Mercury, Noble, and Triple H. The guy was poised to absolutely make it and be on a wave of fan support, but they immediately turned it into The John Cena Story and a month later they'd completely retconned the Survivor Series main. Within a month of that they had Big Show and Kane dominate the Rumble match to the detriment of anybody who had shine from the Authority angle, and by Fastlane they'd absolutely squashed any of that shine out of him.

    There's going to be a hell of a lot to unpick from Dolph's career when it's over, and one of the biggest things is how WWE could have got someone who clearly had all the natural attributes, talent, and charisma to succeed and constantly screwed the pooch. He might not necessarily be the best wrestler in the company, but he's been hampered so much by things out of his control it beggars belief.

  7. #47
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    At this point I think the rug has been pulled out too many times and the crowd is just never going to bother getting behind him again. He's been mostly in the same spot for almost a decade and people are just done waiting for WWE to pull the trigger. Reminds me in some ways of Lex Luger in NWA/WCW, where he was mega popular through the late 80s and the very start of the 90s but eventually he failed one too many times to take it from Flair and the heat just died off. Ziggler is another guy who desperately needs a few years away from WWE. I think he could do about as well as Cody, who is doing quite well, and it would freshen him up to no end.

  8. #48
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    I think that Nick Nemeth would probably be able to command top titles pretty much anywhere else, too. Could be RoH champ or pick up straps in Japan within a few months of leaving.

    But say he does stay - the impersonation shtick he has been doing, what's the upside on all of that? I would guess that the best case scenario is something along the lines of more of the midcard. Sure, there's been a bit more of an edge in Ziggles version, but running as the Showster and Showkishi didn't exactly turn Big Show into a top title contender, did it?

  9. #49
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    I wonder if he really would find such easy success on the indy scene? Cody took a little time to be accepted, and I'd argue he had a lot more fan goodwill built up than Dolph does right now. I get the impression a lot of fans are really just sick of Dolph now, and he might have to really prove himself in the outside world. I think Japan would be an especially tough nut for him to crack, as there's such an emphasis on working a least a bit stiff and having strong offense, and that's never been Ziggler's strong suit. I think Ziggler could definitely be a player elsewhere in the US if he puts the work in, but I think he would definitely have to put some work in.

  10. #50
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    Could be a fair point, that. I sort of assumed that as one of the more gifted athletes of his generation with a legit wrestling background, they'd be thrilled to see him square off against the big indy names. But you might be right. And maybe in some ways his big problem is that the work ethic isn't there as consistently now, and there's no guarantee that it'd be there having left the big time?

  11. #51
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    If he does leave, it's just as possible he pulls a Wade Barrett and just absconds from wrestling entirely. He's also trying to be a stand up comedian, right? He might end up just focusing on that.

    Or he might stick around in WWE for the next 10 years and very slowly deteriorate in his spot...

  12. #52
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    The debate seems to be whether or not he'll stay with WWE when the contract runs out, just taking the easy money that's on offer, or whether he'll head to NJPW and try his luck there.

    It's an interesting proposition.

  13. #53
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    Are people really talking about him for New Japan? I just don't think he'd fit at all there. I'd be curious to see him try, but stylistically he feels all wrong.

  14. #54
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    That was the suggestion I saw in an article. I don't know how many people are talking about it. For the record, Meltzer said he thought he'd take the easy money.

  15. #55
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    I wouldn't be surprised, he's taken it this far despite being on a down slope for a while now.

  16. #56
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    Even so, loved his stuff with Miz in 2016. I know a lot of that was Miz but takes two to produce that.

    It's kinda like Charlie Brown and the football with Dolph I think. Just when he's getting tired they give him a title feud or something to get excited about and it picks him back up a bit.

    This conversation about what Dolph does might be more relevant. Have seen some places suggesting that his 2/3 falls match with Roode might be the last time we see him on WWE TV. He's actually only won one match since the summer - not just on TV but in total, so far as my research has turned up - and has been jobbed out not just through the UK tour but pretty much everywhere they have been. It certainly sounds like the way you might treat someone if you had planned to let them go.
    Last edited by Prime Time; 01-25-2018 at 09:25 AM.



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  17. #57
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    Here's hoping! He might sink or swim outside of WWE but it'd be more entertaining to watch him try as opposed to watching him stagnate.

  18. #58
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    This'll drive you nuts, already seen some one arguing he should join the frickin Bullet Club...



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  19. #59
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    Argh!!! I mean, I guess there are worse fits, but seriously why does everyone have to be in the damn Bullet Club??

  20. #60
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    I know some are higher on Dolph than me, but i think he would get lost in the shuffle if he decided to work indies.. idk just feels like if he wanted to do that, he probably should have done it 3 years ago when he wasn't so stale

  21. #61
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    Probably depends which indys you're looking at - there are so many that I could see him main eventing (say) most of the UK indy circuit, if that appealed, but maybe not an RoH or PWG (although PWG would probably be a great home for him...)

    Didn't he want to go into stand up before? Not that he's been doing much standing up in WWE recently...

  22. #62
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    I don't know whether the plan would be to try the indies or get out of wrestling altogether. I mean, he's probably financially set after more than ten years with WWE and it doesn't seem like hes' going to have any expensive vices, so I guess the dude can do what he wants.

    That said - I don't think it'll take a long time to build yourself back up on the indies, if the motivation is there. It'd come down to how much you want it, of course, but you're going to get booked somewhere because a WWE star will boost most gates, if it works well you're going to get booked again, and before you know it you're hot as hell if you have his kind of talent and the drive is there to put on a show. The question is will Ziggler wanna be doing that at this point? Cody did it, but Ziggler is five years older and had more of a WWE run to look back on. He may feel like he's done all he needs to do, or at least that anything else he might want to do can't be achieved on the smaller stage.



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  23. #63
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    I mean, if Cody can do ROH and PWG then Ziggler could. And I say that as a fan of both guys, even though I'm not sure either one should necessarily be main eventing promotions like that.

  24. #64
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    Cody is a smart businessman who used his name to get out there and make an impact right away. The list was so important to that. Most of the other WWE guys don't really do that. They want the time off and ease back into it, with large booking fees.. at least so i hear. Is PWG gonna book Dolph? Sure but how much does he want for it? They will be sold out regardless.

  25. #65
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    I'd have thought that in the first instance he could get booked anywhere he wanted, if his demands weren't too high. The question is whether there'd be the motivation to do it. He's probably getting paid more than Cody ever was, and if the attitude of 'I don't get out of bed for less than X' kicks in then it probably doesn't work out.

    Doesn't he have a really good legit wrestling background? Maybe he could shock the world by following Jack Swagger into MMA....



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  26. #66
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    He does - record number of pins at his high school, (then) record number of pins at Kent State, and three Championships while at college, if I'm remembering rightly. He was one of those guys that Brisco played a role in recruiting, he's done it constantly over the years for WWE too.

    They always seemed to play it up on WWE TV when it actually suits what Ziggler's going to do.

    I just did a quick check and Brisco hired him, or recommended him, in 2004 and he signed with WWE then. So he's basically been in the system there for thirteen years now.

  27. #67
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    That's funny, I would have guessed Ziggler and Cody would have been on fairly equal levels pay-wise.

    Ziggler in MMA is something my brain can't even comprehend. I can picture him as an amateur wrestler without too much trouble, but anything with striking just seems like a terrible fit for him. Then again, I guess who knows what a guy can do when he's not working??

  28. #68
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    At the very least, he would have a base to work off in MMA unlike Punk. I'm also sure Dolph is getting mid level money just like Cody was, probably less now due to him working a bit less. I try not to speculate on who makes what... but that doesn't really matter on the indies. Guys over value their worth all the time. Does Dolph draw a building? Maybe for the first weeks but not like 5K or anything like that.

  29. #69
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    I wouldn't have guessed Cody could draw on the level he does, so it's hard to say. I do think Ziggler has less buzz than Cody did though. The "held back" period for him is passed, as WWE has pulled the rug out so many times that people just got tired of waiting.

  30. #70
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    See i don't think Cody alone draws on a major level. The list helped him and i'm sure he did well before the bullet club but once he attached himself to the club, that's when things took off. If you replaced Cody with Omega for example in the same exact spot, their likely would be no difference. I don't hear alot of people saying they go to ROH for Cody, its more bullet club related.

    I think Dolph would go more into the Ryback route, try to get paid overseas rather than work the random indies

  31. #71
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    I dunno, a Cody and Joey Ryan main event drew 3,000 earlier this year for a show that featured no Bullet Club. I do think Omega could probably outdraw him but don't underestimate Cody's apparent appeal.

    From what I can find, Ryback is mostly doing random indies right now. The only overseas stuff he did this year was a weekend in Australia, and last year a couple stints in the UK.

  32. #72
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    I'd assumed that Dolph would be paid Upper midcard money and Cody would have got midcard money, for what it's worth. Like Dolph would be on the low end of top talent while Cody would be smack in the middle of one of the guys.

    I may be wrong but that's how I would imagine they were positioned.



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  33. #73
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    So, what's next up for the show-off? Leaving the US title in the middle of the ring hints at him leaving the company altogether, but I've seen reports that suggest he will be still working house shows so he is presumably not (in this moment) completely moving away from WWE.

    Where do people think this whole angle is leading now?

  34. #74
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    Reports are saying that Ziggler will be off TV for a while, but no idea where the WWE is going with the angle. He is not leaving the company, though.

  35. #75
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    God but this seems like nonsense. Is it just me or has Ziggler's career just gone completely off the rails at this point? A shooty-shoot quitting angle is not what he needed.

  36. #76
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    Sad thing is, it was the most interesting thing from SDLIVE cause it was so terrible this week. I don't know where you go with it if he's not leaving though.

  37. #77
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    I mean, it wasn't the best thing from SDLive necessarily...



    But it was certainly the most interesting. It's the Christmas period, the shows are in a holding pattern until the New Year because the Rumble is five weeks away and the card space on that show is limited by (presumably) two Rumble matches which will occupy at least half the run time of the main show itself, plus a Triple Threat match that'll likely cover another 20/25 minutes including entrances and stuff. There's really not a lot of stuff left to get booked for that show, assuming they stick with a 3 hour main show, and a lot of stuff will likely end up on the pre-show but even that is going to run pretty deep.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the main card is only four matches long this year - Men's Rumble, Women's Rumble, Brock vs Braun vs Kane, Styles vs ???. You might get the two tag titles on the pre-show.

  38. #78
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    AJ Styles vs Dolph Ziggler for the WWE title at the Royal Rumble?

    Do you guys think it's possible?

  39. #79
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    It would be a very safe option.

  40. #80
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    Not saying i'm for it but i'd rather that happen, then have some overbooked title match with AJ and KO/Sami. Especially since we're already getting a triple threat for the Universal title.

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