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Thread: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Thread for the Books ... careful Spoilers)

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    A Song Of Ice and Fire (Thread for the Books ... careful Spoilers)

    I think we need a thread for the saga of Westeros as told in George R.R. Martin A Song of Ice and Fire series.

    Seriously this means a thread for the main series, The Dunk and Egg books, and finally the current short story just published in Dangerous Women.

    The Main series we all know . of A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and finally A Dance with Dragons. This amazing series introduced us to the world of The Seven Kingdoms and the dynastic clashes which rocked it to it's bloody core.

    Recently I listened to The Audiobooks read by Roy Doltrice. They were really good and gave me something to listen to while i was in the basement at work filing endlessly.

    The Dunk and Egg tales are the short stories The Hedge Knight from Legends or Dreamsongs II, The Sworn Sword from Legends II, and The Mystery Knight" from Warriors or Epic. All the stories are available seperately in Ebook form. The stories relate the adventures ofthe splendid duo of Ser Duncan the Tall and Prince Aegon Targaryen both figures are occasionally referenced in the main series. The first story takes place eighty-nine years before A Game of Thrones. I listened to the audiobooks which were alright but not as good as Doltrice.

    The Princess and the Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens is a NEW 35,000-word novella by George R. R. Martin about the Dance of the Dragons, the vast civil war that tore Westeros apart nearly two centuries before the events of A Game of Thrones from Dangerous Women. I got the audiobook which had it read by one of my biggest celeb crushes Iain Glen who i <3 and plays Ser Jorah Mormont in Game of Thrones and Jack Taylor in the Irish detective Series of the same name.

    Has anyone else got a hold of The Princess and the Queen?

    Lets not even talk about how excited i am for The World of Ice and Fire.

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    Roy Dotrice is da BAWSE. His voices get pretty inconsistent though when there's been a long time between books. Like FFC and DWD.

    So ready for Oberyn. GRRM got him incredibly over with just a few chapters. Can't wait to see what they do with a whole season.

    And yes, the single combat is what I'm most excited about. While the Red Wedding was a valley of despair, that scene will be a roller coaster of emotions that's gonna blow people's minds.
    Last edited by Smart_Mark; 01-10-2014 at 07:08 PM.
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    Im kinda hoping for the horror of the purple wedding because it might give us a better hint over who did it.

    People hate Joff so much itll be interesting to see how horrible his death is and how they react

    Im also excited because Bloodraven is one of the people cast.

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    Lena Headey is gonna be the star of the PW. Just you watch.

    I'm anxious to see how Jojen is doing during Bran's story. A common theory is he was sacrificed and fed to Bran. Should be good.

    Of course, Coldhands goes without saying.

    The annual epic ninth episode is reportedly focused around the battle at the Wall.
    Last edited by Smart_Mark; 01-10-2014 at 07:30 PM.
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    I think Diana Rigg is gonna be kind of a big deal during the Purple Wedding.

    Im really curious about the second episode and what itll cover.

    I want more Ser Jorah Mormont.

    I want more in the books, i want them to cover Greyjoy Rebellion and more of Robert's rebellion in short stories. I wouldnt mind if George cant get out Winds of Winter on time he could give us some of Robert's Rebellion on TV.

    I hope the World of Ice and Fire is like the new short story.

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    I thought the dime was gonna drop on Mormont a few times this past season.

    Alot of people complained about Theon's arc this past season, but I don't think they realize how true to the books it all was. Ramsay even sent part of him to Pyke.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Im kinda hoping for the horror of the purple wedding because it might give us a better hint over who did it.
    What do you mean a better hint? I thought it was painfully obvious that it was the Queen of Thorns with help from Littlefinger. Possibly Garlan included as well, but that's not really all that relevant. I guess you can create other possibilities, but that's just trying to create a more complicated story when there's no need.

    And forget the Purple Wedding. If Oberyn/Mountain doesn't get 20 minutes, I'm going to be annoyed.
    Last edited by TheAman; 01-10-2014 at 11:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    What do you mean a better hint? I thought it was painfully obvious that it was the Queen of Thorns with help from Littlefinger. Possibly Garlan included as well, but that's not really all that relevant. I guess you can create other possibilities, but that's just trying to create a more complicated story when there's no need.
    Joffrey provoked Tywin. Cold, formidable and not one to be slighted. Someone needed a sharp lession. For Tywin, Littlefinger and Varys could easily have been the tools as well. Remember when Kevan Lannister visits Tyrion after the Purple Wedding, he tells Tyrion that if he confesses to the murder, he would be sent to the wall. For some reason I get the feeling that this offer was actually valid. However, if Tywin really believed that Tyrion was guilty of Kingslaying and Kinslaying, would the imp escape the block?

    Could also be the Queen of Thorns with Varys and making the Gold Roses part of the Blackfyre conspiracy.

    But seriously, I believe a few out there theories (Lets just say Daenerys Stormborn has a little brother) and some which are more grounded in fact (Aegon is a Blackfyre and has The Sword in his chests) I also believe in The Great Northern Conspiracy and The Iron Throne rejects claimants.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-11-2014 at 12:15 AM.

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    Well, no, it's obvious that Tyrion didn't do it. I think Tywin is smart enough to know that. But at the same time, he knows that everyone, especially Cersei, believes he did do it, and that there's no way even if he was able to make everyone stand down, that Tyrion would be able to walk around with Cersei constantly trying to get people to kill him. So it's easiest just to have him take the black.

    And Tywin would not kill his own grandson. Sharp lesson is different from killing. What is the motive there? Despite everything, he does love and value his family...and why would he risk hurting his own control over the capital? He had to know that the Tyrells would gain more position.

    If it's not Olenna or Garlan actually physically doing it, I'm beyond shocked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    And Tywin would not kill his own grandson. Sharp lesson is different from killing. What is the motive there? Despite everything, he does love and value his family...and why would he risk hurting his own control over the capital? He had to know that the Tyrells would gain more position.

    If it's not Olenna or Garlan actually physically doing it, I'm beyond shocked.
    From what Tywin said to Jamie we know that he wanted to send Tommen to Casterly Rock with him and marry Margaery to Jaime. Tywin had different plans for Tommen than marrying Margaery . Margaery wouldnt have been queen and the Tyrells would have been weakened. He wanted to marry Cersei off and I suppose he intends to rule as Regent til Tommen was of age. He gets rid of Tyrion, he frees the white cloak from around his sons shoulders and he removes a king who is unworthy of the throne.


    Olenna pried the crystal out of Sansa's hairnet so the Tyrells could accuse her and Tyrion of the crime but I dont think that it means that The Grand Old Rose did it, it could easily have meant that those poisons were provided by someone (Varys or Littlefinger) and she could be trying to shift blame.

    Everyone had the motive to eliminate Joffrey.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-11-2014 at 12:32 AM.

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    So what's his plan for the throne if he's sending Tommen to Casterly Rock? Just taking over? I don't think in a time of civil war, he wants to do anything to risk his family's power. Plus, at what point has he ever shown the desire to be a kinslayer? He's been embarrassed by, hell, half his family, and has never killed them. I think it's a reeeeeeeeeeeeal stretch to say that because Joffrey snapped at him, that he would kill him. As you quoted, he needs a sharp lesson. Killing doesn't teach any lesson.

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    Queen of Thorns did it / arranged it. End of story. Not everything is some super elaborate plot. Some things are to be taken at face value.

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    Sara probably believes that Ned isn't dead either, because Sansa said that it didn't look like his head on top of the wall. Actually, I think that's more plausible than Tywin killing Joffrey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    So what's his plan for the throne if he's sending Tommen to Casterly Rock? Just taking over? I don't think in a time of civil war, he wants to do anything to risk his family's power. Plus, at what point has he ever shown the desire to be a kinslayer? He's been embarrassed by, hell, half his family, and has never killed them. I think it's a reeeeeeeeeeeeal stretch to say that because Joffrey snapped at him, that he would kill him. As you quoted, he needs a sharp lesson. Killing doesn't teach any lesson.
    it Teaches Tommen a lesson. Tywin was ridiculed for 20 years by the previous mad king, would he be willing to watch his son becomes Aerys III when he has a perfectly normal happy heir?

    Tyrion brought embarrassment for the House but he was sly and resourceful. Joffrey's only quality was to fuck up the Lannister's already precarious hold on the throne. Left unchecked, he could have lost the Game of Thrones.

    The catch is Lord Tywin willing to kill a Lannister? Im not sure.

    Tommen is crowned king and then sent to the Rock for safety. He then names himself Lord protector i assume and names Jaime as his heir as Lord of The Rock and names him next in line to be king. All within his power. I realize this hinges on 3 quotes and thus might just be a shadow on a wall and not a monster. It is one of my more ridiculous theories but not my most tenuous (The Dragon of Winterfell only hinges on one quote and a tenuous link in 2 ... and it might be symbolism)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    Sara probably believes that Ned isn't dead either, because Sansa said that it didn't look like his head on top of the wall. Actually, I think that's more plausible than Tywin killing Joffrey.
    Ned is dead but Ned doesnt need to be alive in order to talk to Bran or Rickon ...

    Two dead people have appeared to at least 3 characters and one even did so in narrative.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-11-2014 at 12:55 AM.

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    Every time we open this thread, 'Sara makes my head hurt.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    Every time we open this thread, 'Sara makes my head hurt.
    The 2 dead people were Ned and Joanna Lannister

    Rickon saw Ned.

    “You let my father be,” Rickon warned Luwin. “You let him be.”
    “Rickon,” Bran said softly. “Father’s not here.”
    “Yes he is. I saw him.” Tears glistened on Rickon’s face. “I saw him last night.”




    Bran saw Ned.

    The mention of dreams reminded him. “I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.”
    “And why was that?” Luwin peered through his tube.
    “It was something to do about Jon, I think.” The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.


    Joanna Lannister appeared to Jaime (its part of my secret Targ theory ...)

    "That night he dreamt that he was back in the Great Sept of Baelor, still standing vigil over his father’s corpse. The sept was still and dark, until a woman emerged from the shadows and walked slowly to the bier. “Sister?” he said. But it was not Cersei. She was all in grey, a silent sister. A hood and veil concealed her features, but he could see the candles burning in the green pools of her eyes. “Sister,” he said, “what would you have of me?” His last word echoed up and down the sept, mememememememememememe.

    “I am not your sister, Jaime.” She raised a pale soft hand and pushed her hood back. “Have you forgotten me?” Can I forget someone I never knew? The words caught in his throat. He did know her, but it had been so long . . . “Will you forget your own lord father too? I wonder if you ever knew him, truly.” Her eyes were green, her hair spun gold. He could not tell how old she was. Fifteen, he thought, or fifty. She climbed the steps to stand above the bier. “He could never abide being laughed at. That was the thing he hated most.” “Who are you?” He had to hear her say it.

    “The question is, who are you?” “This is a dream.” “Is it?” She smiled sadly. “Count your hands, child.” One. One hand, clasped tight around the sword hilt. Only one. “In my dreams I always have two hands.” He raised his right arm and stared uncomprehending at the ugliness of his stump. “we all dream of things we cannot have. Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them.” “I am a knight,” he told her, “and Cersei is a queen.” A tear rolled down her cheek. The woman raised her hood again and turned her back on him. Jaime called after her, but already she was moving away, her skirt whispering lullabies as it brushed across the floor. Don’t leave me, he wanted to call, but of course she’d left them long ago. "

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    No, I get all that. All the Starks are wargs, and therefore have the mystical abilities associated with such. My personal favorite "dead Ned" moment was in Bran's last chapter in Dance. He saw Ned beneath a heart tree, praying that they should grow up as brothers.

    I also agree that there's something fishy with the Lannisters. My main point is that you seem to reach an awful lot to make more of something than is there. Even GRRM himself has said this is a major problem. For instance, the Tyrells killed Joff. That's all there is to it, more or less.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    No, I get all that. All the Starks are wargs, and therefore have the mystical abilities associated with such. My personal favorite "dead Ned" moment was in Bran's last chapter in Dance. He saw Ned beneath a heart tree, praying that they should grow up as brothers.

    I also agree that there's something fishy with the Lannisters. My main point is that you seem to reach an awful lot to make more of something than is there. Even GRRM himself has said this is a major problem. For instance, the Tyrells killed Joff. That's all there is to it, more or less.
    Yeah and the Freys and Boltons killed the Young Wolf more or less ... oh wait less because Tywin was clearly involved in that too. Varys is working for the good of the realm and there is no Northern Conspiracy. Like a babe in the woods you believe that the Mormonts, Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates even the House Ryswell and Dustins out of Barrowton all bent the knee to Bolton. ... Even Gallant Ser Jorah Mormont was a tool of a conspiracy. Varys isnt really involved in the Blackfyre conspiracy and Aegon is really Aegon isnt he?

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    No shit about the Northern Conspiracy. Manderly all but said as much. That's not reaching. The words you're trying to put in my mouth is.
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    All these theories...shits gonna end up like Lost with most of them not being that elaborate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    All these theories...shits gonna end up like Lost with most of them not being that elaborate.
    Maybe in the show, but in the book, I feel that Martin loves people like Thomas B. Costain who pointed out that some of the greatest conspiracies never come to fruition. At the end of the day while the Great Northern Conspiracy will happen and Aegon will be exposed as a Blackfyre, I feel that some plans will never come to fruition because some people will die or some of the conspiracies will fail. There will be unfulfilled potential and failed plans. people will switch sides and abandon conspirators. People will make plans and die before they are fufilled. For example, I could see after the main trilogy, if Martin lives long enough we will see Hoster Tully, Rickard Stark and Jon Arryn making plans during the War of the Nine Penny kings when they conspire but never succeed.

    For example, Through the eyes of Summer, the Direwolf, Bran sees "The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake who's roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars" Bran VII

    It could be a dragon from under Winterfell (which would explain by both Hodor and the Direwolves are afraid of the Crypts before this line but not after) but it could be representational of something else ( The body of Lyanna Stark in the crypts or even the Targaryan wedding cloak used by Rhaegar to marry her) or it could just be fire. We dont know but there are pieces and hints all over the books.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-11-2014 at 09:29 PM.

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    Martin isn't doing shit after the books are done. Hell, I'd say it's even money now if he lives to finish it. You can already tell his heart isn't in the books anymore. I love the story, but god I'd rather have so many people than him writing it. And while the Great Northern Conspiracy is entertaining as hell, and may have some truths in it, it has way too many holes as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    Martin isn't doing shit after the books are done. Hell, I'd say it's even money now if he lives to finish it. You can already tell his heart isn't in the books anymore. I love the story, but god I'd rather have so many people than him writing it. And while the Great Northern Conspiracy is entertaining as hell, and may have some truths in it, it has way too many holes as well.
    Even I dont believe every shred of the Northern Conspiracy. I do believe that its a trap tho. I do believe that the old men are planning to sacrifice themselves against Bolton and Frey and the lack of guest right will be turned against them.

    Manderly is the most obvious.

    "Foes and false friends are all around me, Lord Davos. They infest my city like roaches, and at night I feel them crawling over me." The fat man’s fingers coiled into a fist, and all his chins trembled. “My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder’s bread and salt, hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter… but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done." (Davos IV, ADWD)

    Even his daughter, Wylla Manderly, a girl of no more than fifteen, knows what side shes on
    "A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return, we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!" (Davos III, ADWD)

    Even the supposed loyalists to House Bolton :
    " Lady Dustin laughed. “Are all Freys such fools? Look at him. Hold a dagger? He hardly has the strength to hold a spoon. Do you truly think he could have overcome the Bastard’s disgusting creature and shoved his manhood down his throat?” ... “Night work is not knight’s work,” Lady Dustin said. “And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates ... they all had men with the Young Wolf.”
    “House Ryswell too,” said Roger Ryswell. “Even Dustins out of Barrowton.” Lady Dustin parted her lips in a thin, feral smile. “The north remembers, Frey.”


    Even Stannis is rejected flatly by The North. The Hill Clans fight for Ned's Little Girl and Ten-year-old Lyanna Mormont roundly rejects Stannis Baratheon as her king.
    "Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK." (Jon I, ADWD)

    The Greatjon roundly rejects Stannis in the first book.

    I could keep going

    Martin has planned other short stories set in westeros as well. They might have to be finished by someone like Sanderson but there are copious notes already.

    You might think Martin isnt doing shit when the books are done but he already has done 3 rather good novellas (which together make up a book on their own) already published part of The Dance of the Dragons (and the rest of it was cut by the editor so thusly is half written ) and has another Dunk and Egg story already in the works. To think that Martin, who never focused on exclusively one project, is just writing one project (the big books) is a bit silly.

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    What about Rhaegar Targaryen being Gerold Dayne (Darkstar)? Don't think its him but it would be an awesome twist. I know its not him but I'd much rather that then him being Arthur Dayne.

    With there being so many rumored Targaryens being around in hiding I'm actually hoping that a bunch of them are true. I hope they literally reveal like 15 different people being Targaryens.
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 01-12-2014 at 04:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post

    Martin has planned other short stories set in westeros as well. They might have to be finished by someone like Sanderson but there are copious notes already.

    You might think Martin isnt doing shit when the books are done but he already has done 3 rather good novellas (which together make up a book on their own) already published part of The Dance of the Dragons (and the rest of it was cut by the editor so thusly is half written ) and has another Dunk and Egg story already in the works. To think that Martin, who never focused on exclusively one project, is just writing one project (the big books) is a bit silly.
    Didn't he specifically say that if he dies, he's not letting anyone touch his work? I may be misremembering that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    What about Rhaegar Targaryen being Gerold Dayne (Darkstar)? Don't think its him but it would be an awesome twist. I know its not him but I'd much rather that then him being Arthur Dayne.
    Arthur Dayne is the paragon of virtue, a true knight, and Gerold Dayne isnt. Im kinda holding out that Gerold Dayne is the bastard son of Ashara Dayne and Brandon Stark but I think hes too old. Hes too young to be Rhaegar.

    "You were a fool to make him part of this. Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne. You and he have done us all great harm."


    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    With there being so many rumored Targaryens being around in hiding I'm actually hoping that a bunch of them are true. I hope they literally reveal like 15 different people being Targaryens.
    Have you read The Princess and the Queen? I think we will need lots of people with Targaryen blood if we are going to have 3-4 dragons.

    Its British History, So the Tudors (decedents of stable hands and bastards) overthrew the rightful King of England Richard III. Despite the death of Richard III and Henry VII's victory there was almost a century of clamants, pretenders and secret plots attempting to put The House of York back on the throne.

    King Richard's nephews, the Earl of Warwick and the true blooded de la Pole brothers, all had the support of dangerous enemies overseas and attempted to seize the throne. Some like that were real, some like Perkin Warbeck werent. One that was actually on the tudor side (Charles Somerset, Earl of Worcester ) actually had a better claim on the throne than the King but wouldnt have been considered because he was a bastard.

    Sound Familiar? A lot of George's stuff is pulled almost directly from history (From Aegon secretly surviving murder and gaining an army overseas to The Red Wedding itself). Its kinda cool. Some of the houses are even named for historians. Thomas B. Costain released what is definitely the best history series i ever read The Pageant of England (The Conquerors, The Magnificent Century, The Three Edwards,The Last Plantagenets) and Lord Tommen Costayne is the lord of House Costayne of Three Towers in The Reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    Didn't he specifically say that if he dies, he's not letting anyone touch his work? I may be misremembering that.
    Well not really, in the past (before the TV show) he has said if he dies, we're fucked because he has never written down anything about how he wants this series to go or end. BUT when the TV show happened he started writing down more of how things will go to give the writers an idea of where he is going. He also has no problem with people monkeying around in his universes. I mean hes using other writers on The World of Ice and Fire and hes been the Wild Cards series editor (which he writes for) so he has no problem with other writers contributing to another universe he has.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-12-2014 at 05:37 PM.

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    Yeah, seems like the show is more of a lock to see a proper finish than the books.

    Should Rob Stark and company have bent the knee to Stannis Baratheon? It's what Ned would've done.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    Should Rob Stark and company have bent the knee to Stannis Baratheon? It's what Ned would've done.
    Im not sure. Stannis would have made a terrible king. Im not sure how Ned would have taken to burning weirwoods. I think Ned might have ended up King in the North. Ned treasures those old ways. Stannis burned the big old weirwood in Storm's End. He even makes the wildlings burn parts of weirwood. Imagine if Stannis asked Eddard Stark, head of the ancient House Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and Warden of the North to sacrifice a piece of his god to some red demon?

    "Jon." Melisandre was so close he could feel the warmth of her breath. "R'hllor is the only true god. A vow sworn to a tree has no more power than one sworn to your shoes. Open your heart and let the light of the Lord come in. Burn these weirwoods, and accept Winterfell as a gift of the Lord of Light." - From Storm of Swords

    " The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks..." The Quiet Wolf from the first chapter of The Game of Thrones.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-13-2014 at 03:23 AM.

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    Fuck all that. Patchface. Is the Devil. Him being the Avatar of The Drowned God makes a lot of sense if his back story is true. His songs are weird as fuck and them maybe being prophecy makes it even weirder. He describes everything like he is underwater or he is going underwater for something. Isn't their a horn that can control all the Krakens?

    Speaking of Krakens...Is there some connection between The Greyjoys / The Drowned God and the Wights? The Wights apparently rise from lakes and the seas. Patchface has made mention of the dead rising from the sea and the slogan of house Greyjoy is "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."

    And even though I'm pretty sure Melisandre is on the wrong side [unknowingly] she knows something is up with that weird fuck Patchface as well. She says that in her fires she sees him surrounded by skulls with his lips red with blood.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    Fuck all that. Patchface. Is the Devil. Him being the Avatar of The Drowned God makes a lot of sense if his back story is true. His songs are weird as fuck and them maybe being prophecy makes it even weirder. He describes everything like he is underwater or he is going underwater for something. Isn't their a horn that can control all the Krakens?

    Speaking of Krakens...Is there some connection between The Greyjoys / The Drowned God and the Wights? The Wights apparently rise from lakes and the seas. Patchface has made mention of the dead rising from the sea and the slogan of house Greyjoy is "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."

    And even though I'm pretty sure Melisandre is on the wrong side [unknowingly] she knows something is up with that weird fuck Patchface as well. She says that in her fires she sees him surrounded by skulls with his lips red with blood.
    Im afraid Patchface will kill Shireen Baratheon, probably by drowning her. Because in any quotes where he references her he tells her he will take her under the sea.

    “Away, away,” the fool sang. “Come with me beneath the sea, away, away, away.” He took the little princess by one hand and drew her from the room, skipping. - A Dance with Dragons

    Patchface jumped up. “I will lead it!” His bells rang merrily. “We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh.” - A Dance with Dragons

    It is an interesting point that the Drowned God might be connected to the White Walkers. Remember those grayscale creatures in The Sorrows? I mean those were kind of like living Wrights in the water.

    There was that letter

    At Hardhome, with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Braavosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Storm Crow defeated, six crew dead, many wildlings. Eight ravens left. Dead things in the water. Send help by land, seas wracked by storms. From Talon, by hand of Maester Harmune.

    Cotter Pyke had made his angry mark below. “Is it grievous, my lord?” asked Clydas. “Grievous enough.” Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water. Six ships left, of the eleven that set sail. Jon Snow rolled up the parchment, frowning. Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins. – A Dance With Dragons JON XII

    But against your idea,

    “ Mormont was deaf to the edge in his voice. "The fisherfolk near Eastwatch have glimpsed white walkers on the shore." – Game of Thrones.


    Eventually they are setting up Fire vs Ice.

    Don’t get me wrong You know who else Melisandre is afrad of ? Lord Brynden Rivers, The Last Greenseer, a legitimized Great Bastard of Aegon IV Targaryen and Melissa Blackwood. Former Master of Whispers for King Daeron the Good. Former Hand of the King for Aerys I, Former Lord Commander of The Night’s Watch, Brearer of Dark Sister and the three-eyed crow.

    Melisandre, saw in her flames in her chambers at Castle Black

    “A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment . . . but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.” – From A Dance With Dragons

    He has been cast in Season 4 of Game of Thrones.

    How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have?



    Quote Originally Posted by TheAman View Post
    And Tywin would not kill his own grandson. Sharp lesson is different from killing. What is the motive there? Despite everything, he does love and value his family...and why would he risk hurting his own control over the capital? He had to know that the Tyrells would gain more position.

    If it's not Olenna or Garlan actually physically doing it, I'm beyond shocked.
    Found a fun quote for this tonight arguing about The Red Viper someplace else.

    “She thought so,” Prince Oberyn agreed, “but your father is not a man to forget such slights. He taught that lesson to Lord and Lady Tarbeck once, and to the Reynes of Castamere. And at King’s Landing, he taught it to my sister.” - A Storm Of Swords TYRION X

    Reynes were Kin to the lannisters (albiet probably like the the Karstarks are to the Starks), He also had no problem with having children's skulls crushed

    “Far be it from me to question your cunning, Father, but in your place I do believe I’d have let Robert Baratheon bloody his own hands.”

    Lord Tywin stared at him as if he had lost his wits. “You deserve that motley, then. We had come late to Robert’s cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever.” -A Storm Of Swords TYRION VI

    Edit. OMG did you guys see the purple wedding bits in that preview its gonna rock.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 02-11-2014 at 10:23 PM.

  31. #31
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    So...

  32. #32
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    Just so we are all clear. Aegon Targaryen the only son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell was murdered by The Mountain and his head was left a red ruin.

    Aegon "Young Griff" is a historical parallel the maligned figure of Perkin Warbeck. Warbeck claimed to be Richard, Duke of York, who was murdered in the Tower of London as a young child. Warbeck was a fraud who rallied the disaffected Yorkist traditionalists (especially those in Exile who had followed Richard III) landed a small foreign army and ended up being executed.


    what evidence is there that he's real? Varys' word, and Connington's belief for which he in turn depended on The Whisperer.

  33. #33
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    Game of Thrones explains a lot of shit not explained in the books tonight.

    They really are Crasters sons.

    Did we just meet the Night King? Was that The Great Other?

    Confirmed as The Night King http://i.imgur.com/G1pdcan.png
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 04-28-2014 at 12:57 AM.

  34. #34
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    You know what? I don't mind the changes. Better this than to have Bran wandering around doing nothing for another season.

  35. #35
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    Pretty much considering there is very little from the books left involving him.

  36. #36
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    Hell, dude only has 7 chapters in the last three released books. Sure, he's not even in one of them, but still. Just don't forget that a Child of the Forest was cast for this season, so it looks like we're gonna be damn close to using up what little bit of material he has left. Also, have they started the "Jojen is sick" storyline in the show? I haven't heard them specifically mention it, but he didn't look well at all on last night's episode.

    So Craster's love of his wife-daughters' wet parts is the cause of the growing ranks of the White Walkers? Way to go Craster. Real tribute to humanity you are.

    Any chance this story with Locke eventually leads to what happens to Jon at the end of Dance? Even Kit Harrington has said Jon is left in a very cold place at the end of this season, which seems to directly contradict being made Lord Commander, doesn't it?
    Last edited by Smart_Mark; 04-28-2014 at 02:23 PM.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  37. #37
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    Don't think he will made Lord Commander in the show but I see the same exact ending for him. They can milk it until the end of next season tho since Stanis or Mance isn't around yet. Don't see why that would happen THIS season.

    Craster has always claimed to a a man of "God". What he did with his kids might just be the only tribute you can pay to The Others in order to live on their side of the wall. We know they attack Wildlings and Brothers of the watch but left Craster alone due to his sacrifice.
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 04-28-2014 at 02:39 PM.

  38. #38
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    Eh, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch could be considered to be a very cold place. I DO think Locke will factor into what eventually happens to him, but I don't think it's this season. I could see him helping Jon here, earning his trust, and then later betraying him.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post

    Any chance this story with Locke eventually leads to what happens to Jon at the end of Dance? Even Kit Harrington has said Jon is left in a very cold place at the end of this season, which seems to directly contradict being made Lord Commander, doesn't it?
    How does this episode contradict him being Lord Commander? I mean he could return from Crasters after Killing that creepy dude (and Locke) with even more brothers of the Night's Watch. Jon returns with his wolf, even more Brothers loyal to him, Have Jon become a hero in the Battle for Castle Black. He still has to kill a certain wildling for his duty. They could put off his election til the beginning of next season, have Sam and Maester Aemon get sent away first. So now Jon loses Sam, Aemon, he has to kill the woman he loves, he is surrounded by Brothers who resent him (Thorne, Slynt and the rest of the highborn haters) filled with grief. Sounds pretty Cold to me.


    Does anyone else think the Iron Throne would cut Daenerys?
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-29-2014 at 02:35 AM.

  40. #40
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    I'm at the point in her story that I actually hope she doesn't get the Iron Throne. I don't hope for her death or anything, but I just don't want her on the Throne. I joke around with my friend about how Stannis is the one, true King, but He'd be a terrible King also. At this point, Tommen & Margery provide the most stable, peaceful future for Westeros.

    And I cannot wait for Littlefinger to unveil his master plan. I don't care what he told Sansa, giving the North to her is not his endgame. Especisally considering that when was the last time someone who expressed their plan (either to other people or in their own thoughts) actually carrying out said plan?

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