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Thread: A Song Of Ice and Fire (Thread for the Books ... careful Spoilers)

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    I'm starting to think Sansa might be the next most likely character to complete her entire Swords arc. I could see Lysa getting hers by episode 7, and the season ending on the slower but just-as-tense note of the Royces coming up the mountain to confront and possibly remove Petyr.
    The final shot of the season is either going to be Zombie Cat or the Moon Door. I see no other option.

  2. #82
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    Do you think of those two events as being on the same level? To me, Lysa is a minor enough character that her death could be used to augment Sansa's character arc around ep. 7 (conveniently titled "Mockingbird"). Then there's still enough big stuff that would absolutely have to happen in the next 3 episodes to keep everyone talking.

    As long as we actually do get confirmation of UnCat sometime this season, I'd be fine with the season's closing shot being of Tyrion, sailing away from the only life he's ever known, face a mixture of uncertainty and sorrow.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    Do you think of those two events as being on the same level? To me, Lysa is a minor enough character that her death could be used to augment Sansa's character arc around ep. 7 (conveniently titled "Mockingbird"). Then there's still enough big stuff that would absolutely have to happen in the next 3 episodes to keep everyone talking.

    As long as we actually do get confirmation of UnCat sometime this season, I'd be fine with the season's closing shot being of Tyrion, sailing away from the only life he's ever known, face a mixture of uncertainty and sorrow.
    Lysa is a minor character, but Baelish is so big in the show that I could see him making a power move like that being a good closing shot. I'm personally leaning towards Zombie Cat as the closer though. Not a terrible thought on Tyrion, but I expect Tywin to bite it either episode 8 or 9, so I don't see them dragging Tyrion's departure that long. It really depends if episode 9 is really going to be almost solely on the Wall or not.

  4. #84
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    I don't see any reason why not. S2E9 was solely about the Blackwater. I know Lysa is a minor character, but Petyr shoving her through the Moon Door should be a big moment. At least it was to me, because that's the moment when I realized that Littlefinger is fucking insane. Up until that point, he's always been in the shadows, speaking in riddles and metaphors. Could be just me, as I'm a huge Petyr Baelish fan.

    The ending of the season could be a red hearing of sorts. Tyrion kills Shae & Tywin and then the Rains of Castamere start playing as he's climbing back down the stairs. He gets to the bottom as the song picks up and you see Varys and Tyrion walking "into the light" and the song ends as the screen goes cuts to black (kind of like the ending of the Circle of Life at the beginning of The Lion King) and you think it's over. The the black fades into a lonely knight riding his horse alone on a foggy morning. Then the Lady Stoneheart scene happens. The last shot of the season should be Cat pulling her hood off and rasping/whispering (I don't like the weird wailing she does in the books) any form of "Kill him, hang him, stab him, bring me his head." Then the screen cuts to black again as the credits start playing.

    At least, that's how I'd do it if I had any say in the matter.

  5. #85
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    You guys are all forgetting the big thing this season will be The Battle for Castle Black and the death of a certain redheaded wildling. Season 4 Episode 9 will focus on The Wildlings and the Wall like S2E9 was the battle of the Blackwater. Episode 8 is titled “The Mountain and the Viper”, so obviously ...

    So obviously 9 ends with all the sad stuff 10 we have the election (and probably Stannis BTW)

    The final episode is called “The Children.” so its either about The Stark kids, The dragons or a full on slave rebellion (the slaves call her "Mother" remember)

  6. #86
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    Meh, firstly I haven't looked up episode names. I'm just going off of what I would do. And why couldn't The Children mean Tyrion, Jaime, and Cersei? And you could still have a scene with the remaining Stark children and hit everything ve've talked about so far. Just have all of them mention Cat and how she died in their individual scenes leading up to Lady Stoneheart. It still works.

    And I'd expect Stannis to show up in episode nine in the manner that Tywin arrives in the Battle of the Blackwater back in season two." So the election would have to wait and could be in the first episode of next season. That way we can get right into the election and skip a lot of the stalling that actually occurs in book, but imply that Stannis is frustrated of waiting.

    Sara, how would you structure the last couple sequences of this season?

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    I'm pretty sure episode 10 was originally tittled "The Children of the Forest" and they dropped the second half. We are supposed to be introduced to Bloodraven this season and Jojen is all ready sick so I'm leading toward that.

    That and the real last episode is episode 9. All the major stuff tends to happen in episode 9. 10 is normally an introduction to whats a head and I think leaving off with Bran eating the paste will be it.

    Then again with the reveal of Crastors Sons we COULD learn more about them but I doubt it.
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 05-02-2014 at 03:36 PM.

  8. #88
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    That be a worse way to end the season then Dany freeing all the slaves of Yunkai.

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    Meh how it ends is really no issue to me. As I said episode 9 tends to be more of the end of the chapter with episode 10 being more of whats to come next season.

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    So for season 5 they'll have to do the first halves of AFfC & ADWD, right? And season six is the last halves of the books. They would split up the characters and seasons, would they?

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    I don't want 3 out of 4 seasons of Game of Thrones to have ended with Dany. Nothing against her or even her arc, but my mind is just too symmetrical for that. Peter Dinklage has been as close to a true leading man since the first season.

    And he's in fucking X-Men. Don't really see why this discussion is necessary.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    I don't want 3 out of 4 seasons of Game of Thrones to have ended with Dany. Nothing against her or even her arc, but my mind is just too symmetrical for that. Peter Dinklage has been as close to a true leading man since the first season.
    Excuse me but you are talking about Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons. She is the star of the show. She is GRRM's Mary Sue. The two real stars will be Jon Snow and Daenerys. Its why they are sending that dwarf kinslayer across the sea. Because he will advise her. Anyway, he would look silly sitting on the Iron Throne, his feet would dangle.

    "You have a good claim: a title, a birthright. But you have something more than that: you may cover it up and deny it, but you have a gentle heart. You would be not only respected and feared, you would be loved. Someone who can rule and should rule. Centuries come and go without a person like that coming into the world. There are times that I look at you, and I still can't believe you're real."
    ―Ser Jorah Mormont

  13. #93
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    Please. Bitch can't even make a hat.

    I really hope we get that final "Sandor's regret" scene between him and Arya. So much focus on all the big action pieces still to come that people aren't gonna know what hit 'em if Rory McMann can knock that scene out of the park.
    Last edited by Smart_Mark; 05-03-2014 at 10:28 PM.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    Please. Bitch can't even make a hat.

    I really hope we get that final "Sandor's regret" scene between him and Arya. So much focus on all the big action pieces still to come that people aren't gonna know what hit 'em if Rory McMann can knock that scene out of the park.
    I hope they dont do it yet. I think Sandor and Arya is way more interesting then Cat of the Canals or almost anything to do with the house of Black and White (they can speed through that)

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    With the nature of the show, can you really see any characters still in their book 3 arc by season 5, though? Besides, Arya doesn't need to spend 3 seasons doing the same thing. She's not Daenerys.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    With the nature of the show, can you really see any characters still in their book 3 arc by season 5, though? Besides, Arya doesn't need to spend 3 seasons doing the same thing. She's not Daenerys.
    Another Season wouldnt hurt tho, then do Braavos then do like a Rocky training montage for the rest of it, bang it out in 10 mins.

  17. #97
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    I hope The House of Black and White is her next season arc. I really enjoy it. Especially when they blind her at first. It was a big shocker for me. And I figure that the last of Arya we see this season is her giving the ship captain the Bravosi coin. Her last scene in the past two season have revolved around the coin, may as well finally use it.

  18. #98
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    So what's everybody's favorite Crackpot theory of A Song of Ice and Fire?

    I love that Hodor really is Gerold Hightower the White Bull of the King's Guard. Howland Reed warged into him during Tower Of Joy and fried his brain. Ned then took him back to Winterfell to live out the rest of his days in peace under the care of Old Nan. "Hodor" is really an attempt at trying to say his family name "Hightower".

  19. #99
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    Well, my favorite crackpot prediction is Jaime being killed by Stoneheart, which I assume would release him from his duties as LC of the KG. After, Stoneheart "kisses" him, and he rises, takes the Black, and ends his story as the Lord Commandeer of Black and White.

    EDIT: Just curious 'Sara, if that about Hodor were true, do you think that's why warging a human is considered a no-no?
    Last edited by Smart_Mark; 05-06-2014 at 05:57 AM.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  20. #100
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    My favorite crackpot theory is that Young Griff isn't actually a Targaryen. The battle for the Iron Throne is already too cluttered with pretenders, why add one more?

    Long Live King Stannis.

  21. #101
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    When Varamyr Wargs The spearwife Thistle in the DWD prologue it makes them crazy yeah? I think it does serious damage to the willpower and the mind. Which is why it is such a cool theory and explains why Bran can easily Warg Hodor with seemingly few ill effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    My favorite crackpot theory is that Young Griff isn't actually a Targaryen. The battle for the Iron Throne is already too cluttered with pretenders, why add one more?
    There is a ton of evidence which says Young Griff Aegon isnt the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell. There is a good bit of evidence that he is "the mummer's dragon".

    the Golden Company's allegiance, Varys lack of family name dropping in his villain speech to Kevan, and Visions, lots of vision.

    " Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood " .


    You want another great fucked up Warging theory?

    Maester Aemon Warged into Mance's baby when he held him the night before he died.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 05-06-2014 at 03:43 PM.

  22. #102
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    Yeah, Griff not being a Targaryen isn't really crackpot. I remember from the first moment he was re-introduced, I was ridiculously skeptical.

  23. #103
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    I like John Connington, though. He seems like a nice enough guy though. Which reminds me. Dude has Greyscale in his finger. Why doesn't he just lop it off before the disease spreads?

  24. #104
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    Connington's actions will kill more people than any battle.

    what do you guys think is in the Crypts of Winterfell?

  25. #105
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    Bones of old people.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    Bones of old people.
    There is a statue of Lyanna Stark in the crypt under Winterfell. There are only statutes of the Lord Starks of Winterfell. There is a Statute of Brandon because his father died first but why is there a Statute of Lyanna? I think she is buried at the Tower of joy. The crypt contains no body, but instead contains the big secret left for Jon to discover when he discovers his true identity down in the crypts.


    There is also there a rumor of a dragon in the crypts. Winterfell was built especially above hot springs.

    In the end of Clash Of Kings when bran goes into his direwolf and he sees a dragon flying up out of Winterfell.

    "The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake who's roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars"

    It could be Maester Aemon's, Egg

    Hoodor was afraid of something in the crypts and Early in the books Rickon and Shaggy dog end up in there and both of them start acting in a strange way.

    It could be the sword Ice.

  27. #107
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    Omg. Oh My God. Sarah is a happy girl.

    Finally The World of Ice and Fire (An illustrated history of the Seven Kingdoms produced by the Ice and Fire Wiki people and George RR Martin and its going to be 330 pages of glory) has a preview. It includes a Stark family tree. (It is surprising how weak Rickard Stark's claim to Winterfell is)

    http://edelweiss-assets.abovethetree...ads-lowres.pdf

    God, sometimes you just feel like trying to force George RR Martin to take your money.

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    Started reading The World of Ice and Fire and I'm enjoying it so far.

  29. #109
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    Just got the audiobook, still waiting to get my coffee table book (it was sold out at my B&N) so i ordered it.

    Roy Doltrice is reading the audiobook. Um Yayness.

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    Tried doing the first one. Made it maybe 3 or 4 hours in. I cant listen to 40 hours worth of reading. I can read the book in half the time it takes to listen to them so i don't see the point. I would have to have literally nothing to do and a whole lot of drugs.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    Tried doing the first one. Made it maybe 3 or 4 hours in. I cant listen to 40 hours worth of reading. I can read the book in half the time it takes to listen to them so i don't see the point. I would have to have literally nothing to do and a whole lot of drugs.
    I file. A lot. So alone, in the basement of the law office. retrieving, organizing, updating, checking and discovering file folders shoved in cabinets, document boxes, drawers and safes. Sometimes for hours. It can be brain killing work, audiobooks help.

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    I have no interest in putting more money in Martin's pocket until at least Winds comes out. If the library happens to get it for Kindle, cool. Other than that, I'll skip it for now. When guys I believe have become superior to him like Brandon Sanderson and Joe Abercrombie can put out excellent work less than a year apart, I've grown tired of his act. I'm fine seeing it all play out on screen if that's what he chooses to have it come to, in spite of how much I prefer the books.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    I have no interest in putting more money in Martin's pocket until at least Winds comes out. If the library happens to get it for Kindle, cool. Other than that, I'll skip it for now. When guys I believe have become superior to him like Brandon Sanderson and Joe Abercrombie can put out excellent work less than a year apart, I've grown tired of his act. I'm fine seeing it all play out on screen if that's what he chooses to have it come to, in spite of how much I prefer the books.
    I can respect that. I wish I had that conviction, because I feel the exact same way (minus your thoughts on Abercrombie). I just can't not read it.

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    Yeah don't support his other works because he hasn't given you the one you want. That doesn't seem entitled. Not one bit. God forbid that guy enjoy the fruits of his labor. He should stop living and lock himself in his writing room until he makes you and every other fan like yourself happy.

    Jesus. I'd take my fuckin time too the second people thought I owed them something.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    Yeah don't support his other works because he hasn't given you the one you want. That doesn't seem entitled. Not one bit. God forbid that guy enjoy the fruits of his labor. He should stop living and lock himself in his writing room until he makes you and every other fan like yourself happy.

    Jesus. I'd take my fuckin time too the second people thought I owed them something.
    When you put it in writing that you are going to put a book out within a year, and then make people wait SIX years for that book, it rubs people the wrong way.

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    If that bothers you then you have way too much time on your hands honestly. He clearly has other things on his hands with how popular the show has become. I'd like to read the rest of the story as well. Him taking his time doesn't make me want it any less tho. I don't care how long he takes because i want it to be as best as he can. I don't want something rushed out just cause he set a date. Then again I'm never lacking for anything to read so it is what it is.

    Dudes an old man who is getting money and bitches at the end part of his life. Ya would be partying the same as him.

    I honestly think he is taking his time and might never finish on purpose because of how entitled some people act over something that he has no obligation to finish. Ever. I hope thats not the case but I wouldn't be shocked.

  37. #117
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    This was before the show started and before the show was even conceived. In 2005, in the afterword to Feast of Crows, he wrote that he intended Dance with Dragons to be out within a year. DWD didn't come out until 2011. He wasn't rolling in money and bitches at the time. And yes, by writing it, if nothing else, he put the idea into people's heads that it would be out soon. So that was a complete dick move. Now, as far as the rest of his books, I agree that he can take his time. But at the time same, as Brent Weeks wrote, you do have SOME obligation to your readers. He doesn't need to turn into a machine like Sanderson. And he doesn't need to drop everything. But he should try his best to get books out in a somewhat timely fashion. I have no problem with him putting out the history book. Most of the times books like that come in the middle of series (and usually has a new one after the series is finished). I do have a problem if the last book isn't out until 2023.

  38. #118
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    I honestly think he is taking his time and might never finish on purpose because of how entitled some people act over something that he has no obligation to finish. Ever. I hope thats not the case but I wouldn't be shocked.
    If that was the case that would be a shame, and quite frankly rather petty and unprofessional.

    With that said, he has the right to take his time and write at his own pace. At the end of the day it is his name going on the final product and if he feels it is not up to his standards then good for him. Time is ticking though.

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    Cold, I don't understand your reaction to what I said. Did I try to convince anybody else not to buy his new book? No, I simply said I have no interest in buying anything else he puts out until Winds of Winter comes out? Do I believe by starting a series (especially one that has become as popular as this one) gives you a sort of contract with your readers? Yes. Am I calling for his death and telling people not to read the series because of it? No. In fact, I have encouraged people who like Game of Thrones to pick up the books, however I have also been doing so with a caveat of my concerns that he may not finish the series before he dies. That said, I've already bought the first five books of the series, (and the first couple Dunk and Egg stories) and that's what I'm interested in reading. I don't necessarily need the entire history of Westeros the way some may. Now, if you or Sarah were to come into this thread and say how much it kicks ass and expands everything we think we know about the story, I'd probably change my mind and pick it up. However, just as you feel (wrongly in my opinion, but whatever) that Martin's under no obligation to finish the series, I feel I'm under no obligation to buy something of his other than what I'm looking for from him. As for taking his time to make it the best possible, he took 5 1/2 years for Dance and that didn't turn out as good as most would have liked.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    Cold, I don't understand your reaction to what I said. Did I try to convince anybody else not to buy his new book? No, I simply said I have no interest in buying anything else he puts out until Winds of Winter comes out? Do I believe by starting a series (especially one that has become as popular as this one) gives you a sort of contract with your readers? Yes. Am I calling for his death and telling people not to read the series because of it? No. In fact, I have encouraged people who like Game of Thrones to pick up the books, however I have also been doing so with a caveat of my concerns that he may not finish the series before he dies. That said, I've already bought the first five books of the series, (and the first couple Dunk and Egg stories) and that's what I'm interested in reading. I don't necessarily need the entire history of Westeros the way some may. Now, if you or Sarah were to come into this thread and say how much it kicks ass and expands everything we think we know about the story, I'd probably change my mind and pick it up. However, just as you feel (wrongly in my opinion, but whatever) that Martin's under no obligation to finish the series, I feel I'm under no obligation to buy something of his other than what I'm looking for from him. As for taking his time to make it the best possible, he took 5 1/2 years for Dance and that didn't turn out as good as most would have liked.
    Don't namedrop me. I see where you are coming from. To be honest, I probably felt the way you did too. Then i discovered all the other stuff George was doing. So yeah Dance took 5,5 years (mostly because he wrote himself into a corner and had to write himself out). But, to be honest he did pitch, help create and write for the Game of Thrones TV show during that time period. He also edits those fantastic short stories collections with Gardner Dozois. He also created The Dunk and Egg short Stories (Which, by the way, if you havent read yet while you are whining about The Song Of Ice and Fire then you are an idiot). Honestly if George RR Martin puts out 6 more of the Dunk and Egg Short Stories and doesnt write a Dream of Spring I am all set, I personally prefer them because they are more traditional fantasy). Have you read the Dunk and Egg stories? Have you read the Dance of Dragons histories from The Princess and the Queen and The Rogue Prince?

    I love GRRM's short stories like Night of the Vampyres or Fevre Dream.

    Also the World of Ice and Fire is interesting because it actually takes things that are mentioned quickly in the book and puts meat on the bones.

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