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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #81
    Follows buzzards Smart_Mark's Avatar
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    I was thinking- when EXACTLY did Jaime turn face last year? There's only one time I can recall where he actually did something good, and that's when he saved Brienne. Of course that is something season 1 Jaime wouldn't have done, but most of the sympathy for Jaime comes from the fact that we had to watch bad things happen to a bad person. I guarantee you if you put him in a cage right now with a distant cousin (I believe that was Cleos Frey in season 2) he'd strangle him and kill another half dozen Karstarks if he thought it would lead to his escape. I hate to bring up wrestling here, but when the Shield had a 10 on 3 match as heels it didn't turn them face, did it?

    As far as the "rape" scene, if you notice there was a quick shot of Cersei's leg where she was bending it in that oh so sexy motion that chicks do when they're enjoying it. It was subtle and easy to miss, but it's there.

    And yes, last episode will probably be remembered as the signature Tywin episode in the series. I really liked how that talk with Tommen was ultimately about letting the adults handle things for awhile. Did anyone else think that he was starting the "birds and the bees" talk with Tommen as they were leaving the sept?
    Last edited by Smart_Mark; 04-23-2014 at 09:45 AM.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  2. #82
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    I think Jaime started turning face when he stopped Brienne from getting raped.

    Monkey summed up the "rape" scene best. It wasn't Cersei saying no to Jaime's advances, she was saying no to the time and place. I thoughtit was super rapey and then watched it again and that's the way I saw it. Though they could have done a better job of explaning the situation since there's no inner monologue to guide us.

    The birds and bees talk was certainly being had between Tywin and Tommen.


  3. #83
    Follows buzzards Smart_Mark's Avatar
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    After not only watching every episode but most of them several times, I can't believe I'm just now noticing this: In the opening credits, beside every cast member's name is the sigil of their house (or icon most closely associated with them, like a spider next to Conlith Hill). Has anyone else ever noticed this?
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  4. #84
    EJ84
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    Lol @ super rapey

  5. #85
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    The funniest thing is that's also been used to describe Orton during monster pushes.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  6. #86
    CoachBrief
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    I'm going to defend the scene for two main reasons:

    1. My friends are scandalized because it wasn't so rapey in the books, to which I say, "If you expect a tv/movie version of a book to be exactly the same, then you are being delusional."

    2. They also say that it was out of character because he's a good guy now, or at least on the path of becoming a good guy. Which I think is a weak argument, but people aren't so black/white, good/evil. Just because he is a good person does not mean that he can't do bad things. Especially because of the series it is in, where there have been no solely evil or good characters, sans Joffery.

  7. #87
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    Tywin is pretty evil, not as cartoonish as his dead grandson but still. The only 'good' Lannister really is Tyrion.

  8. #88
    CoachBrief
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    Tywin is pretty evil, not as cartoonish as his dead grandson but still. The only 'good' Lannister really is Tyrion.
    I don't know. Tywin is the only person in Westeros who is legitimately trying to keep the Seven Kingdoms together. Add to the fact that he has to do this while knowing that all three of his children are directly responsible for the mess the continent is in right now.

  9. #89
    EJ84
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    Didn't they make the a point of it that Tywin is in it for the Lannister name only? Anything that threatens the family name must be dealt with, even if when it's own children? When Joffrey was still around, he said to someone that the King isn't the most powerful man in Westeros, implying that he himself was instead.

    I dunno if "evil" is the right word, but the Tywin character definitely leans a lot more towards "bad" than "good".

  10. #90
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    Thats exactly it. He only cares about the Throne / Westeros in relation to their Family legacy. Has nothing to do with the Seven Kingdoms to be honest.

    Also how is Tyrion in anyway responsible for anything his family is involved in? Outside of banging whores the only problems he has are with his family.

  11. #91
    CoachBrief
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ84 View Post
    Didn't they make the a point of it that Tywin is in it for the Lannister name only? Anything that threatens the family name must be dealt with, even if when it's own children? When Joffrey was still around, he said to someone that the King isn't the most powerful man in Westeros, implying that he himself was instead.

    I dunno if "evil" is the right word, but the Tywin character definitely leans a lot more towards "bad" than "good".
    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    Thats exactly it. He only cares about the Throne / Westeros in relation to their Family legacy. Has nothing to do with the Seven Kingdoms to be honest.

    Also how is Tyrion in anyway responsible for anything his family is involved in? Outside of banging whores the only problems he has are with his family.
    Cold, if that's how you label Tywin, then how is Robb Stark any different? He broke away from the Kingdoms and started a civil war over the Stark name. Yes, Tywin leans more towards the evil side of the fence, but I just don't think that he is the most evil in the series. In his convo with Oberyn Martell in the last episode, he laid it out for the Red Viper: White Walkers & Danerys (with three dragons) are coming to fuck shit up sooner rather than later, so he's trying to end the constant squabbling between all the houses.

    Everyone in the series is trying to improve their family standing, Tywin is just more direct about it. The Tyrells are trying to marry into power. The Freys & Boltons betrayed Robb Stark for a bigger piece of pizza. Robb Stark named himself King. I can't say who I think is the most evil just yet.

    And Tyrion... I tried to think think of an instance and the only thing I came up with was shipping Myrcella off to Dorne and the riot in the streets that came afterwards. So Tyrion, not so much.

  12. #92
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    Robb started The Civil War? The War started when Robert died and Joffery was named King. Renly was first to claim a side. Then Joff cut Robbs fathers head off causing the North to break off. None of which was started by Robb. Robb didn't start anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    In his convo with Oberyn Martell in the last episode, he laid it out for the Red Viper: White Walkers & Danerys (with three dragons) are coming to fuck shit up sooner rather than later, so he's trying to end the constant squabbling between all the houses.
    I think this has to do with Dorne being the only known people to tactically hold off the Valyrians during their initial siege of Westeros. Dorne never bent the knee to Aegon unlike the other 6 Kingdoms. They waited their time and married into the 7 Kingdoms. If Dany was to come to Westeros she would most likely come through Dorn. Tywain is just covering his ass. Offering Dorne a spot on the small council to try and counteract any threat that might come. Without Dorne there is an open door into Westeros and Tywin being the tactician is just planning for the long game. Its not about the Seven Kingdoms being destroyed its about the Seven Kingdoms being destroyed while his family is in charge. Thats all they would be remembered for if it ever happened.
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 04-25-2014 at 02:27 PM.

  13. #93
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    Robb was the first to march and fight. He was the only one to battle the Lannisters in the first book, unless I'm mistaken.

    And yeah, he wants his family in power, who wouldn't? Again, that's not evil, he's looking out for his best interests. That's just smart. How is what he does any different (besides the routes taken to power) than the Martells, Tyrells, Baratheons, and even Danerys for that matter?

  14. #94
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    Robb had cause to fight. Tywin just fights for whatever he thinks is his and doesn't give a damn.

  15. #95
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    Tywin wasn't fighting at the beginning. He was too busy being the Lord of Casterly Rock, Warden of the West, and counting his gold to fight. He didn't raise his banners until Robb took up arms and started marching south.
    Last edited by CoachBrief; 04-25-2014 at 04:36 PM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    How is what he does any different (besides the routes taken to power) than the Martells, Tyrells, Baratheons, and even Danerys for that matter?
    The Martells as far as we know have only fought in defense of their land. There is nothing that points to any of the leaders of Dorne being evil. Even when the chance comes for them to "Back door" their way into a position Doran Martell doesn't allow it and still follows his plans of peacefully claiming their spot. Like in past wars Dorne is looking out for whats best for the Dornish.

    Baratheons were next in line for the Throne once there were no more Targs [The Baratheons line started with a Targ] . Robert was rightful heir to the throne when everything went down because "The Targ heirs" were all "Killed". The only one of the Baratheons who could be considered evil or Greedy is Renly. Stannis only wants the Throne because he feels its his duty. He doesn't want to be King.

    The only one even remotely close to the Lanisters are the Tyrells. They clearly will do anything and everything to better their stature in the Seven Kingdoms.

    Not everyone wants their family in the seat of Power. Ned didn't even want to be Hand of the King. Some of these people are doing what needs to be done out of what they feel is their moral duty not out of greed.
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 04-25-2014 at 04:43 PM.

  17. #97
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    I wouldn't exactly call Robert's reign as legal. He rebelled, and claimed that he was the King. It wasn't through some moral obligation. He even tells Ned at one point that "If you had sat on the throne when you marched into the capital, you'd be King right now".

    Oberyn Martell has come to King's Landing to kill everyone who had anything to do with Elia & Rhaenys's murder, even though King Robert pardoned everyone involved. Before I go any further, have you read the books? I've more to say about this topic, but don't want to spoil anything that has yet to happen.

  18. #98
    Kevin
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    I know speaking for me, I haven't read the books. I think there is a song of ice and fire thread to discuss the books. Please don't spoil anything.

  19. #99
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    Everything said has taken place on the show or is historically things that have happened in the Dunk and Egg Novels that take place before Game of Thrones.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    I wouldn't exactly call Robert's reign as legal. He rebelled, and claimed that he was the King. It wasn't through some moral obligation. He even tells Ned at one point that "If you had sat on the throne when you marched into the capital, you'd be King right now".
    Not legal but in the line of succession with all Targs dead Robert would have been next in line being the closest Kin. If he wasn't part of the rebellion he would have had the rightful claim to it anyway...if he was like his brother Stannis and wants to follow his "Duty".

    I read all of the books and have heard all of the theories.

  20. #100
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    Cold, I know. I was referring to Coachbrief's comment about discussing things past what had been aired on the show.

  21. #101
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    Cool. Cool.

  22. #102
    Follows buzzards Smart_Mark's Avatar
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    I've always said Rob should have declared for Stannis. When everyone started chanting "King in the North!", they might as well have filled him full of bolts and swords themselves. Rob's bad decisions so often stemmed from what he thought his father would have done, but the smartest thing he could have done, kneeling to Stannis, is the one thing we all know for sure Ned would have wanted.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  23. #103
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I know speaking for me, I haven't read the books. I think there is a song of ice and fire thread to discuss the books. Please don't spoil anything.
    Bonus features on the DVDs explain Robert's war in detail quite nicely. If you havent watched them id recommend you seek them out. If you want us not to talk about stuff released by HBO with the actors of the show telling us stuff in character then I cant help you.

    According to the Bonus Features Robert has the best claim through both the female and the male lines. Id argue Aerys violated his fealty when he allowed Rhegar to violate the betrothal of Robert and Lyanna. Jon Arryn would have rebelled even if Robert wasnt of the blood.

    Id argue that according to the Bonus Features that Ned was legally probably in questionable ground but when Aerys denied Brandon Stark's Right to Combat he violated something serious.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSuXBVv4ppY - History and Lore Season 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjivdcqIyJ4 - History and Lore Season 2

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es3VVgFq9nQ - History and Lore Season 3
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-27-2014 at 06:50 PM.

  24. #104
    Kevin
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    Just to settle this right now, because you're the second person to quote me thinking I'm asking for someone to not talk about something aired by HBO....

    Before I go any further, have you read the books? I've more to say about this topic, but don't want to spoil anything that has yet to happen.
    This is what I was responding to. I was telling Coach not to talk about things that have happened in the book but not in the show.

  25. #105
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    The murder of Elia Aegon & Rhaenys is covered rather well from the point of view of multiple characters (Tywin, The Hound, Robert and such) in the History and Lore.

  26. #106
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    Game of Thrones explains a lot of shit not explained in the books tonight.

  27. #107
    Kevin
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    I don't know what it is about this season so far, but its really been lacking to me. I've yet to see an episode where I was really wow'd by how amazing it was....other than Joffrey dying that is.

  28. #108
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    I lost my shit at the end of tonights episode. That was HUGE.

  29. #109
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    Yeah the ending was good. But the overall episode was....I dunno, lacking. Theres moments in each episode that are good, but I feel like they should have moved forward with the bit with Jon Snow tonight, not just did what happened. That was determined last week. Again, this whole thought process could just be me, cause I know most people think the season has been awesome so far, and I'm not saying it hasn't been good. Its just been missing something that I can't put my finger on.

  30. #110
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    The stuff with Jon / Bran is them stalling Brans storyline to drag it out. Where it stands now they are almost at where they last leave off with Bran in the books...so they are gonna be doing a lot of winging it apparently.

    Either way I always look at the first half of the season as the "plot points" and the second half with moving the story along.

    It looks like by the end of the season everything next season regarding Jon / Bran and a few others will be spoilers unless the next book comes out before hand.

  31. #111
    Follows buzzards Smart_Mark's Avatar
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    Hell, half of this episode involved shit that is completely new, even to book readers. Interesting to see Brienne officially cross over into her "Feast for Crows" arc tonight. I kinda feel the same way Kevin does about this season, but I think it's possible that some of that is just not knowing how to feel about such radical changes being made this season.
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  32. #112
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    Also HBO confirmed that the guy at the end was The Nights King...Which is kind of huge news. So if its The Night King from stories we know then its a Stark.

    Oh and these fucks cut Strong...if they cut Cold Hands...
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 04-28-2014 at 01:53 AM.

  33. #113
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    ...You'll continue watching every week without fail?
    I think it's awesome that the word lisp has an "s" in it.

  34. #114
    EJ84
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    So, the reason for the Walkers letting some live and converting (lol just a finger touch) others, as opposed to dismembering everyone else? They walked by Sam. They let that guy in the series opening scene go. The little girl in that same scene was impaled onto a tree, but later appeared as a Walker, while everyone else with her were torn apart. Now a baby, and likely many other babies before.

    Are they all "innocent" people? Or didn't appear to threaten the Walkers? If so, that backfired when Sam later killed one. So what's the reasoning?

    I've also felt this season a bit down on the rest of the series. I thought it was because i'm now watching the episodes with a week break between. That said, I was really getting into this episode. I thought there was a lot to like.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Yeah the ending was good. But the overall episode was....I dunno, lacking. Theres moments in each episode that are good, but I feel like they should have moved forward with the bit with Jon Snow tonight, not just did what happened. That was determined last week. Again, this whole thought process could just be me, cause I know most people think the season has been awesome so far, and I'm not saying it hasn't been good. Its just been missing something that I can't put my finger on.

    They did move the needle with Jon Snow tonight. Some of his Brothers stood up for him. Jon was shown as being a leader (teaching the men to fight) and he was shown as a lord taking council from his maester (with Sam and the maps) and he was shown as a man of action (going to return his wayward brothers) Imagine now if Jon returns with some of those men, his legend grows. There is also the interaction (and payoff) between Bran and Jon.

    Your problem is that its moving too slow. You feel like they are drawing it out for no reason. Welcome to the Club, the books are worse.


    Edit : “Oathkeeper” got the highest ratings of ANY Game of Thrones episode EVER. Awesome, I guess Rapey draws ratings.

    We also saw Daenerys capacity for cruelty. Barristan served under four kings and tonight he saw The Blood of The Dragon. It was vengeance, not justice.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-29-2014 at 10:20 AM.

  36. #116
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    Okay, I'm so confused. I've read all the books twice (except ADWD) and I don't ever remember a "Night's King" or anything having to do with the end of this past episode. Can someone explain to me what the fuck that was and if it is in the books and I just missed it somewhere?

  37. #117
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    Okay, I'm so confused. I've read all the books twice (except ADWD) and I don't ever remember a "Night's King" or anything having to do with the end of this past episode. Can someone explain to me what the fuck that was and if it is in the books and I just missed it somewhere?
    Bran retells Old Nan's stories about The Night King in A Storm of Swords (Chapter 56). They are myths but then so are the White Walkers.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-29-2014 at 01:00 PM.

  38. #118
    CoachBrief
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    That would explain it. I generally skim Bran's chapters.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    That would explain it. I generally skim Bran's chapters.
    God, these books are so in depth i kept notes the first time i read the first 3. I dunno how you could skim and have a strong enough grasp of the material to see the secret plots, the prophecy and the parallels.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Mark View Post
    Personally, I wanted to start this thread when last season went off the air.

    What are you most excited for? PW? Trial-by-combat? Fun with crossbows?
    KIND OF BUT NOT REALLY SPOILERISH:

    Lady Stoneheart.

    EDIT: Sara, I read books the same way I play video games. The first run through, I don't give a shit about any of the side stuff. I read and play for the main story, the big picture if you will. The second time through is when I can afford to take the time and actually grasp and think about all of the little picture. For instance, on my second read-through of AGOT, I learned that the Unsullied were mentioned on the first page on Dany's very first chapter. That's how I generally get the in depth stuff, that you have to dig a little deeper for.
    Last edited by CoachBrief; 04-29-2014 at 01:40 PM.

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