Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 297

Thread: Brock Lesnar

  1. #41
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    It isn't up to debate today, the Taker match is too recent. But in 3-4 years, I could see it being questionable. Not devaluing ending the Streak in anyway, but because of how it happened (bad storyline, average at best match, part timer who will disappear for a few months) it might be something lost in the shuffle of all he's done.

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,006
    I'm with Pen this is subjective. I myself think contributions in a real sport mean more then his WWE accomplishments. To me him making The Vikings practice squad with no real Football knowledge is more impressive then anything he has ever done in the WWE.

    Also your entire argument became invalid the second you claimed The UFC is worked Sara. Without proof thats an asinine claim.

  3. #43
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    I see what you're saying, and things he does in real sports outweighs what he does in a scripted one. But if you said, "Who's Brock Lesnar?" Nobody is going to say, "Oh yeah, I've heard of him. He tried out for the Minnesota Vikings ten years ago."

    Of course, you will always have two separate answers here. Ask a MMA fan and, more times than not, you'll get that his best accomplishment was destroying Frank Mir at UFC 100. Ask a wrestling fan, and you'll get a moment from his wrestling career. Ask a fan of both, and his/her answer will probably depend on which sport he/she prefers.

    I'd be willing to bet that if you asked someone who doesn't watch wrestling or MMA who Brock Lesnar is, most answers that you will get (besides "Never heard of him") would be, "Oh yeah, the wrestler." Of course, I have no way to prove this without walking around on campus and actually doing this experiment.

  4. #44
    Goldberg Rules!
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    West Saint Paul, MN
    Posts
    4,839
    There is a McDonald's on the University of Minnesota campus that used to have a mural of U of M sports and athletes. One of the centerpieces was a big picture of Brock Lesnar in a U of M amateur wrestling singlet.

    The moment he joined the UFC, they took that one down.

  5. #45
    Don't WHAT? Me.
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Little Caesars Arena
    Posts
    4,620
    Lesnar personally will be remembered as the guy who pretty much beat everyone from 2-4 (depending on your viewpoint) eras of wrestling. When my youngins ask me about who was dominating when I was young he's gonna be one of the people I name. He beat newcomers, legends, big guys, small guys, and people that were better than him. Then I will mention that he yells like a girl & is pretty much a douchbag outside the ring.
    Last edited by phemom; 04-08-2014 at 05:47 PM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    465
    I rewatched his Here Comes The Pain DVD today, and I forgot how dominant his original push was. He left Hogan in a state that I believe very few have ever left him in, the only wrestler who appeared to be billed as his "equal" in terms of storyline and in ring dominance was the Undertaker, and even he came out on the losing end of the feud.

    From Backlash to Summerslam, he pretty much ran through the entire roster on his way to the title, from Jeff Hardy to RVD to The Rock. If anybody was pushed that hard in 2014, people would be complaining about how strongly he is booked and that he should lose to balance things out. I imagine the IWC would implode if a wrestler was similarly pushed over the next five months.

  7. #47
    Hylton
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    I rewatched his Here Comes The Pain DVD today, and I forgot how dominant his original push was. He left Hogan in a state that I believe very few have ever left him in, the only wrestler who appeared to be billed as his "equal" in terms of storyline and in ring dominance was the Undertaker, and even he came out on the losing end of the feud.

    From Backlash to Summerslam, he pretty much ran through the entire roster on his way to the title, from Jeff Hardy to RVD to The Rock. If anybody was pushed that hard in 2014, people would be complaining about how strongly he is booked and that he should lose to balance things out. I imagine the IWC would implode if a wrestler was similarly pushed over the next five months.
    No one pays attention to those people anyway.

  8. #48
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,087
    People were into the Ryback push.

    They saw a musclebound guy and assumed that he sucked, then.started chanting for Goldberg, but he'd won over the majority of the audience with the "feed me more" stuff.

    The guy was over as hell, being compared to Cena, before they killed his momentum completely dead with like 5 straight PPV losses.

  9. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    407
    Slightly off-topic, but...

    Irishsara mentioned how impressive it was that Lesnar was undefeated going into his Undisputed Championship win over The Rock at SummerSlam 2002. While it was definitely a different time back then AND he did suffer an untelevised loss to the Ultimate Warrior at an MSG show, The Undertaker was basically undefeated going into HIS first World Championship victory over noneother than Hulk Hogan at Survivor Series 91' - roughly a year since his debut. And, as long as we're talking technicalities, while it is true Lesnar was not pinned or forced to submit until after SummerSlam 02', he did lose by DQ to Van Dam *twice* and he was on the losing side of a tag team at the Insurrection PPV.

    Again, these are technicalities, but I was intrigued by the comment and felt like doing some research.

    Also, and this can't be sufficiently supported through sheer facts alone, I think the greatest rookie year of any pro-wrestler is still Kurt Angle's initial run. While not as instantly impressive as Lesnar, Angle was just such a breath of fresh air in terms of a satiric twist on a classic gimmick being performed by a really charismatic, fearless performer. Lesnar obviously accomplished more, but Angle won many hearts in his first 12 months.

  10. #50
    McDaygo
    Guest
    Kane's "Rookie" as Kane was no joke either.

  11. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    From Backlash to Summerslam, he pretty much ran through the entire roster on his way to the title, from Jeff Hardy to RVD to The Rock. If anybody was pushed that hard in 2014, people would be complaining about how strongly he is booked and that he should lose to balance things out. I imagine the IWC would implode if a wrestler was similarly pushed over the next five months.
    Meh. I thought they should have went overkill with Reigns if they broke up The Shield and would have had him go over every major name in the WWE including Taker, Cena, Brock, Punk and even HHH if it was up to me.

  12. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    465
    The Reigns push could work, but I think it would be too much, even for a guy as talented as popular as he is.

    I could see him going on a run of knocking off big names, but I think his singles push will be the traditional build up, with a Rumble win and finally beat the major heel at Mania for the title.

  13. #53
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    From Backlash to Summerslam, he pretty much ran through the entire roster on his way to the title, from Jeff Hardy to RVD to The Rock. If anybody was pushed that hard in 2014, people would be complaining about how strongly he is booked and that he should lose to balance things out. I imagine the IWC would implode if a wrestler was similarly pushed over the next five months.
    I see your claim, and I raise you one "King of Swing" Cesaro.

  14. #54
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post

    Also your entire argument became invalid the second you claimed The UFC is worked Sara. Without proof thats an asinine claim.
    There is a history of Mixed Martial Arts fights being fixed.

    Chael Sonnen talking about Wanderlei Silva’s fights in Japan,

    “Well, I outed him many years ago for those fights in Japan being fake. I was the first one to ever come out and go, “Time out guys, that referee is wearing an earpiece…these matches aren’t real” And as soon as I said that, and I knew guys who had been in the locker room, I had teammates that fought over there. The promoter comes in with ten grand in cash and tells you how this match is going to go. But I was the first one to out him, and as soon as I outed him publicly, I then got support; whether it was Goodridge or Coleman or Frye. They all came out and were like “Yeah, Chael’s right. These were fixed.” So it is what it is, but the guy wasn’t a champion and I’m speaking out of anger, this whole thing came out of anger. I’m a struggling fighter sitting on my couch watching this guy pretending to win fights, and it pissed me off.” -

    There are a history of worked Pre-Zuffa-era UFC matches. UFC 6 had Oleg Taktarov Vs Anthony Macias and the finish was done in the back. Well, Ultimate Ultimate 96 was clearly fixed between Don Frye and Mark Hall. Mark Hall admitted it. (Don Frye, who has thrown UFC fights in the past claimed Mir and Couture threw their fights with Lesnar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUsKB1S2dks) I'm just saying)

    There are rumors of recent UFC fight judging being fixed

    Hell here is Tito Ortiz talking about his final UFC fight against Forrest Griffin at UFC 148 :


    " thought I won the fight, when you drop a guy twice, you take him down four times and you dominate by doing it. He never took me down. He never hurt me. For the first time ever in UFC history, they showed strikes attempted; not strikes landed, strikes attempted. When do you ever show somebody with strikes attempted? He never hit me, I blocked all of them.

    After him (Griffin) running out of the fight, that shows that he lost and for Dana (White) to go back and run and get him to come back, there’s something fishy going on here. How does Dana know how things are going to turn out? I thought something was fishy about that. Was it premeditated? Was it pre-planned out what the answer was going to be? If I didn’t knock him it, if I didn’t submit him, they already knew who was going to win."

    UFC 162 main event between Anderson Silva and Chris Weidman has been questioned repeatedly. So was Silvia's fight with forrest griffin (with the "broken" jaw which doctors said wasnt broken) It's happened in boxing. Its happened in MMA, its even happened in the UFC in the past. That is an asinine claim? There is a historical president, there is public comments, and it is not unheard of in other sports. Go back and watch the punch that Brock Lesnar barely landed on Randy Couture which dropped him at UFC 91.

  15. #55
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    Haven't you ever seen any action movie ever, Sara? Light punches to the general face area knock people out cold all the time.

  16. #56
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but...

    Irishsara mentioned how impressive it was that Lesnar was undefeated going into his Undisputed Championship win over The Rock at SummerSlam 2002. While it was definitely a different time back then AND he did suffer an untelevised loss to the Ultimate Warrior at an MSG show, The Undertaker was basically undefeated going into HIS first World Championship victory over noneother than Hulk Hogan at Survivor Series 91' - roughly a year since his debut. And, as long as we're talking technicalities, while it is true Lesnar was not pinned or forced to submit until after SummerSlam 02', he did lose by DQ to Van Dam *twice* and he was on the losing side of a tag team at the Insurrection PPV.


    Also, and this can't be sufficiently supported through sheer facts alone, I think the greatest rookie year of any pro-wrestler is still Kurt Angle's initial run. While not as instantly impressive as Lesnar, Angle was just such a breath of fresh air in terms of a satiric twist on a classic gimmick being performed by a really charismatic, fearless performer. Lesnar obviously accomplished more, but Angle won many hearts in his first 12 months.
    Yeah except this loss to Tito Santana in 1991.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yue2_INAdbg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHJjXFY53mg

    Undertaker was also on the losing side of The Royal Rumble his first year.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-09-2014 at 12:25 AM.

  17. #57
    Hylton
    Guest
    People have been saying every sport was fixed since sports. I remember people coming to my place to see the Tyson/Holyfield fight and saying it was fake.

    None of that matters right now though. I'm numb.

  18. #58
    Goldberg Rules!
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    West Saint Paul, MN
    Posts
    4,839
    Of course all sports are fixed. How else do you explain the best player in the world winning the last two NBA championships

  19. #59
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by T.O. View Post
    Of course all sports are fixed. How else do you explain the best player in the world winning the last two NBA championships
    Shane Battier?

  20. #60
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
    People have been saying every sport was fixed since sports. I remember people coming to my place to see the Tyson/Holyfield fight and saying it was fake.
    Did Evander Holyfield say it was fixed? Did Tyson? Did former heavyweight boxers say it? Because, if not, its not the same thing at all.

    Sonny Liston fought Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) in a very big fix, the first phantom punch. Corrupt ref. Richard Steele's favoring Julio Cesar Chavez over Meldrick Taylor and other Don King fighters was upheld by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Lets not pretend Boxing is sqeaky clean ... I mean when the International Boxing Federation's president Bob Lee Sr. was indicted and convicted on numerous racketeering charges for favoring boxers who bribed him its not like it's as white as driven snow.

    Wanderlei Silva, an alleged worked fight practitioner, is main eventing UFC 175.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-09-2014 at 01:38 AM.

  21. #61
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,087
    It could be that my mind is a little twisted from my time involved in the business, but there is never anything that anyone can say to make me believe that, once you get to a certain level of money involved, all professional sports aren't a work.

    The NHL might not go out there and tell the teams who wins and who loses, but they sure as hell know when a specific team winning the cup would be best for business.

    Someone that I know who's word I have the utmost belief in shares an agent with a UFC fighter. He told me that the fighter said to him "it's less real than you think".

    I don't necessarily believe that the fights are fixed, unless they specifically need to be, but Dana books the fights that he believes will get the results that will make him the most money. After Dana's cash cow Brock lost to Mir on rookie mistake, I have no doubt that he reevaluated just how "worked" he wanted his company to be.

  22. #62
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    I bet Carwin fucked up his plans for a Lesnar v. Mir III.

  23. #63
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    I rewatched his Here Comes The Pain DVD today, and I forgot how dominant his original push was. He left Hogan in a state that I believe very few have ever left him in, the only wrestler who appeared to be billed as his "equal" in terms of storyline and in ring dominance was the Undertaker, and even he came out on the losing end of the feud.

    From Backlash to Summerslam, he pretty much ran through the entire roster on his way to the title, from Jeff Hardy to RVD to The Rock. If anybody was pushed that hard in 2014, people would be complaining about how strongly he is booked and that he should lose to balance things out. I imagine the IWC would implode if a wrestler was similarly pushed over the next five months.
    Bullshit. First, who did Brock go through in that time? Hardys, RVD, Hogan, then the Rock. That was it. Yes, he had the win over Test to move to the finals of KOTR, but the big memorable moments were with only 5 names. Roman Reigns single handedly won at Survivor Series and as runner up of the Rumble. Do you see anyone going overboard worrying about that?

    Fans want fresh fun and exciting. Brock was just that in 2002.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    People were into the Ryback push.

    They saw a musclebound guy and assumed that he sucked, then.started chanting for Goldberg, but he'd won over the majority of the audience with the "feed me more" stuff.

    The guy was over as hell, being compared to Cena, before they killed his momentum completely dead with like 5 straight PPV losses.
    Also, this.

    If a guy ran over Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, The Shield, and Bray Wyatt in 5 months, yes you'd get complaints. But if Rusev ran through Gabriel and Kidd, Kofi Kingston, injured Hulk Hogan into disappearing, and then took on John Cena at SummerSlam and won the title, different story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    The Reigns push could work, but I think it would be too much, even for a guy as talented as popular as he is.

    I could see him going on a run of knocking off big names, but I think his singles push will be the traditional build up, with a Rumble win and finally beat the major heel at Mania for the title.
    And now you contradict yourself, kind of. You said no one would like a push like Lesnar's today because it would be too much, and then you say it would be too much for Reigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    I bet Carwin fucked up his plans for a Lesnar v. Mir III.
    UFC and MMA (especially Pride Fighting Championships) had some fixed fights early on, but there's no way it still is today. It's just not possible. It's a silly way to discredit something, by calling it fake. I'm sure Dana does arrange fights to make the most money, fire guys who are boring, and highlight exciting guys that can sell PPVs, and put the right guys against obvious losers. But c'mon.

  24. #64
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    407
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Yeah except this loss to Tito Santana in 1991.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yue2_INAdbg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHJjXFY53mg

    Undertaker was also on the losing side of The Royal Rumble his first year.

    In my research (thanks wrestling database), I noticed this one but was fairly sure it didn't air in the US, which is why I didn't mention it. Again, I wasn't trying to nitpick your argument because I think it is spot-on, it just made me think about Taker's rookie year and how I think you COULD say that he was also *basically* "undefeated" (in terms of matches that actually mattered and were promoted) going into his title match.

    Obviously, if you go back, Lesnar lost matches in OVW and Undertaker lost many matches before coming to the WWE, but essentially, they both went into their title matches as guys who were promoted 100% as unbeatable monsters that were almost impervious to pain and impossible to pin/submit.

  25. #65
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    I know UFC doesn't fake it's fights. And to say otherwise is a slap in the face of all the MMA fighters who take beatings every other week to scratch and claw and work their way into Bellator or UFC.

    I was just being facetious. Dana was is a win-win scenario with the Carwin/Mir fight. If Mir wins, you can sell Lesnar/Mir III as the grudge match of the century. If Carwin wins, you can sell the "Most Dangerous Man on the Planet" Brock Lesnar v. "The Undefeated First Round Knock Out Machine" Shane Carwin. Everybody won in that situation.

  26. #66
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    I only quoted yours cause it was the last one on the subject, and the shortest. It's much more aimed at Sara. I should have cleared that up.

  27. #67
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    Bullshit. First, who did Brock go through in that time? Hardys, RVD, Hogan, then the Rock. That was it. Yes, he had the win over Test to move to the finals of KOTR, but the big memorable moments were with only 5 names. Roman Reigns single handedly won at Survivor Series and as runner up of the Rumble. Do you see anyone going overboard worrying about that?
    Hogan, Flair, Rock, Orton, Cena, RVD, Both Hardys, Bubba Ray Dudley, Beat Tommy Dreamer in a hardcore match, The Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell, Mark Henry and Edge. All before his first pinfall.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    UFC and MMA (especially Pride Fighting Championships) had some fixed fights early on, but there's no way it still is today. It's just not possible. It's a silly way to discredit something, by calling it fake. I'm sure Dana does arrange fights to make the most money, fire guys who are boring, and highlight exciting guys that can sell PPVs, and put the right guys against obvious losers. But c'mon.
    Pride was fixed the whole time, you have fighters who fought in those fixed fights (including their top champion, which according to guys who fought for them like Rampage Jackson Chael Sonnen) now fighting for UFC. There IS evidence that he manipulated judgements which implies that the outcome of some fights were pre-determined. As soon as ANY fights are predetermined within a sport and those fighters are not expelled from the sport then the credibility of the whole sport is suspect.

    You are seriously arguing that its It's a silly way to discredit something, by calling it fake when fighters known to fake fights are main eventing pay per views? Its silly to say that YEAH its fake sometimes but you shouldnt call it fake.

    and Coach, you mean UFC doesnt fake fights anymore but employs fighters who faked fights in the past.

    Oh and Josh, I never found any evidence that it wasnt shown in the US. I was under the impression it aired in place of two superstars of wrestling on the WWE Spanish language programming for Superstars of Wrestling.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-09-2014 at 02:31 PM.

  28. #68
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,006
    Most fixed fights in Japan were fixed by the promotion itself. Half the time only one of the fighters knew that it would be fixed if it was. There has been no proof that Silva has been in fixed fights other then Sonnen running his mouth. In fact other then "claims" nobody has admitted to being in worked matches...because they didnt know they were. This same guy who has been suspended for roids and has plead guilty to money laundering is the voice of truth? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. Nothing he says is to be believed its him putting on a show and running his mouth. But he lets believe the criminal who we know for a FACT has cheated regarding other people being "Cheats". Uh huh. Riiight.
    Last edited by KiLL CoLD; 04-09-2014 at 02:42 PM.

  29. #69
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Hogan, Flair, Rock, Orton, Cena, RVD, Both Hardys, Bubba Ray Dudley, Beat Tommy Dreamer in a hardcore match, The Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell, Mark Henry and Edge. All before his first pinfall.



    Pride was fixed the whole time, you have fighters who fought in those fixed fights (including their top champion, which according to guys who fought for them like Rampage Jackson Chael Sonnen) now fighting for UFC. There IS evidence that he manipulated judgements which implies that the outcome of some fights were pre-determined. As soon as ANY fights are predetermined within a sport and those fighters are not expelled from the sport then the credibility of the whole sport is suspect.

    You are seriously arguing that its It's a silly way to discredit something, by calling it fake when fighters known to fake fights are main eventing pay per views? Its silly to say that YEAH its fake sometimes but you shouldnt call it fake.

    and Coach, you mean UFC doesnt fake fights anymore but employs fighters who faked fights in the past.

    Oh and Josh, I never found any evidence that it wasnt shown in the US. I was under the impression it aired in place of two superstars of wrestling on the WWE Spanish language programming for Superstars of Wrestling.
    No, just no.

    I specifically said memorable moments on purpose. Throw away TV matches are exactly that: throw away. I'm not counting them, most people don't.

    And you're just flat wrong on the rest. I know I won't change your mind though, so I'll drop it.

  30. #70
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by KiLL CoLD View Post
    Most fixed fights in Japan were fixed by the promotion itself. Half the time only one of the fighters knew that it would be fixed if it was. There has been no proof that Silva has been in fixed fights other then Sonnen running his mouth. In fact other then "claims" nobody has admitted to being in worked matches...because they didnt know they were. This same guy who has been suspended for roids and has plead guilty to money laundering is the voice of truth? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. Nothing he says is to be believed its him putting on a show and running his mouth. But he lets believe the criminal who we know for a FACT has cheated regarding other people being "Cheats". Uh huh. Riiight.
    Except for Quinton Rampage Jackson also said his Silva fights were fixed by Yakuza run Pride.

    Pen, the hogan stuff happened on TV (and was brutal and memorable) the Flair win happened in the raw main event and was memorable. The Cena and Orton loss were both clean. (The Orton Lesnar match is actually really good except for a sloppy backbreaker from Orton)

    Are you saying that because Throw away TV matches are exactly that: throw away. you are not counting them that you dont remember lesnar wiping hogan's blood on his chest? Because if you do then those TV matches werent throw away. They called Lesnar the man who destoryed Hulk Hogan for a long time during that run.

  31. #71
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    I mentioned the Hogan part.

    The rest are throw away.

  32. #72
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    I mentioned the Hogan part.

    The rest are throw away.
    Sure, it was before Cena's heel turn and before Orton joined evolution. Flair's match with lesnar went like 14 minutes on the main event of Raw was back and forth and ended with Lesnar going over Ric Flair.

    Sure, Lesnar vs Dreamer went 5 minutes and all of Dreamer's offense was his finisher and Singapore Cane shots.

  33. #73
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    I'm not saying they never happened, but you have to be realistic on what people remember as part of someone's legacy. WWE's network uploaded the PPVs, not the Raws. That's because it's what people crave and remember most. I'm not syaing you feel this way, or the person sitting next to you at the bar, just in general. PPVs stand out. Big highlight moments stand out, like Hogan. But Flair, Dreamer.... nope. When they put together the Brock DVD, did they cover those moments? No. They were essential to getting him over, but those aren't part of his legacy, which is what this thread is discussing.

    Lesnar did not run through the entire roster before winning the title, because he still had stories to tell after he won it.

  34. #74
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    I'm not saying they never happened, but you have to be realistic on what people remember as part of someone's legacy. WWE's network uploaded the PPVs, not the Raws. That's because it's what people crave and remember most. I'm not syaing you feel this way, or the person sitting next to you at the bar, just in general. PPVs stand out. Big highlight moments stand out, like Hogan. But Flair, Dreamer.... nope. When they put together the Brock DVD, did they cover those moments? No. They were essential to getting him over, but those aren't part of his legacy, which is what this thread is discussing.

    Lesnar did not run through the entire roster before winning the title, because he still had stories to tell after he won it.
    I thought there was a clip of the flair match on Here Comes the Pain (and a flair match was already on the lesnar DVD) and Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton from Smackdown was on the DVD.

    The WWE put a clip of it of the flair match on their website - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f5TVXj0-4E because the Flair match is on the Blu-ray edition of the DVD (which i do not own which is why I didnt think of it sooner). So the Brock DVD does cover the match.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-09-2014 at 03:45 PM.

  35. #75
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    Sara, beating Rick Flair in 2002 is not the same as beating Ric Flair in 1989. You know who else beat Ric Flair in 2002? Rico. You wanna tell me that Rico is a big time superstar because he beat Ric Flair on some random episode of RAW 12 years ago?

  36. #76
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/revi...ion-dvd/29494/
    DVD track and match listing
    No Ric Flair Match, and the Smackdown match was after he won the title.

    She's not listening, so I am done.

  37. #77
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBrief View Post
    Sara, beating Rick Flair in 2002 is not the same as beating Ric Flair in 1989. You know who else beat Ric Flair in 2002? Rico. You wanna tell me that Rico is a big time superstar because he beat Ric Flair on some random episode of RAW 12 years ago?
    Why put the match on the DVD if its not important to the building of Brock Lesnar.


    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/revi...ion-dvd/29494/
    DVD track and match listing
    No Ric Flair Match, and the Smackdown match was after he won the title.

    She's not listening, so I am done.
    Remember when I said it was on the Blu-Ray? Read all the words.

    http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-...listing/26210/ -

    Match Listing for WWE Brock Lesnar: Here Comes The Pain DVD & Blu-Ray

    Current Goals

    Brock Lesnar vs. ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair
    Raw 1st July, 2002

    No Fear

    No Disqualification Triple Threat Match for the WWE Undisputed Championship
    The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
    Global Warning 10th August, 2002

    My World

    Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle & Mr. America vs. Big Show, Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin
    SmackDown 26th June, 2003

    Strictly Business

    Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship
    Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. Big Show
    Vengeance 27th July, 2003

    Next Chapter

    Extreme Rules Match

    John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar
    Extreme Rules 29th April, 2012

    Pen, Id hear you out if you are correct, but you are incorrect. Wrong. Mistaken on the facts at issue .
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-09-2014 at 04:03 PM.

  38. #78
    Is Your Superior PEN15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,987
    Explain. I said "it's not on the DVD".

    You brought up the bluray extra features, stuff not included on the DVD.

    It's still not on the DVD. Not in 2003 when it was originally released, and not the 2012-re-release. Because it's not essential, just an extra.

  39. #79
    CoachBrief
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Why put the match on the DVD if its not important to the building of Brock Lesnar.
    Because it's a marketable name that people have heard of. Look at the facts, Ric Flair won four singles matches all of 2002. FOUR. And only two of them were before Brock got to him. The Hurricane had more victories by July than Ric had all year. Let's stop pretending that Ric was on the same level of Hogan, Rock, or even RVD at the time. And The Hardy's are remembered because they were his first feud. Nowhere does Ric Flair fit into that group of those who helped make Brock Lesnar. It's ludicrous.

  40. #80
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    Explain. I said "it's not on the DVD".

    You brought up the bluray extra features, stuff not included on the DVD.

    It's still not on the DVD. Not in 2003 when it was originally released, and not the 2012-re-release. Because it's not essential, just an extra.
    Funny because I thought when you posted a match listing of a DVD, you were implying that it wasnt included on the DVD when clearly it IS included on the Blu-Ray edition, like I said it was. Its why i specified. I didnt feel I needed to specify what SECTION of a DVD.

    I said

    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post

    because the Flair match is on the Blu-ray edition of the DVD (which i do not own which is why I didnt think of it sooner). So the Brock DVD does cover the match.
    Which it CLEARLY is, which would make you Wrong. Now, you might have been mistaken on which matches were on the Blu-Ray edition of the DVD, which I understand, it doesnt make me less correct on the facts at issue. I listened to your point. Your point was wrong and ignorant on the facts. It IS on the Blu-Ray edition of the DVD which makes it ON the DVD. which disproves your earlier point. If you meant the original release then you should have specified like I did.

    He beat Orton before his first pin fall defeat. Which was the original argument about his undefeated streak.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 04-09-2014 at 04:17 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •