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Thread: Why are we here- a religion thread

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    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
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    Why are we here- a religion thread

    Now, I was in the shower this morning debating my own mortality and figure Iíd ask the question on here- why are we here? Not on a wrestling forum, although if there is a God, God knows what he thinks about this place, but why are we on the earth?

    Is there a God watching, waiting to judge? Is there a son of God waiting to return?

    I struggle with most religious concepts but hate the idea that my whole life is meaningless and Iím going to die into nothingness. Surely thereís something out there? Perhaps not.

    Anyway, feel free to share thoughts and views. And tolerate otherís views.

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    After one dies, there is nothing. Life is basically pointless.

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    Ok, I'll bite on this.

    I think most people would consider me pretty irreligious, and I'm generally of the opinion that the only perspective that actually makes full sense is the agnostic, but that's not the full story. I'm not really into the doctrinal side of organised religion and I wouldn't go as far as to say I have any kind of actual belief in the existence of a god, but have come to accept that for one reason or another I essentially conceive of the Universe as if there is. But I don't think that any of the main religions have some sort of inside track on the others.

    There's a whole lot more to how I think than that, but that's the headline.

  4. #4
    I'd be interested to hear more about why you think that way.


    Full disclosure for this thread: I'm an agnostic apatheist. I don't know if there is or isn't, and I don't care either. Until there's proof that there's a god, why live like there is? Pascal got his wager backwards.

    So why are we here? The same reason that everything else is here. To spread our genes as far as we can. That's literally the only real reason that we're here. Apart from that, yes, life is meaningless. When we die, that's it. On the plus side though, humans are the best species at evolving, so we have all this nice stuff like keyboards and central heating and coffee. And with all this cool stuff that we have, and the knowledge that it'll all be over in 80 years or so, I think that the only option is to enjoy yourself as much as you can. Nothing else makes sense.

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    I will answer, but the word I'd have to pick you up on is 'think', because that's not really what I am describing. It's more that no matter how much I analyse it, in which position I tend to be strongly agnostic, when I'm not thinking of it consciously I will typically revert back to thought patterns and actions consistent with a belief in the existence of some sort of God. I imagine, rationally speaking, it's because of the ubiquity of those kind of thoughts in our culture historically. I think along the lines that have been set down for me.

    On the more analytical end, I tend to believe proving the existence or non-existence of God is logically impossible, so any kind of certainty on the question is folly. My own take is probably closest to the Universal Unitarian thinking, in which so long as you aren't harming anyone you can find your spiritual material anywhere, from the Bible or the Bhagavad Gita to Euclidean geometry or A Brief History of Time. And I don't that any being worthy of being called God would demand you'd follow it, though that does sound petty enough to be a human invention.

    Pascal's wager wasn't backwards. It makes perfect sense on it's own terms. My issue would be to question those terms.

    There you go Sheep, and hope you aren't regretting asking!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
    I struggle with most religious concepts but hate the idea that my whole life is meaningless and I’m going to die into nothingness. Surely there’s something out there? Perhaps not.
    I'm comfortable with this. I think our problem as a species is thinking we have to be here for some greater purpose other then life. Think how much more we could accomplish if more people lived their lives worrying about the now instead of what may be when we pass on. Thinking like this really keeps us from doing as much as we can as a species imo.

    That said I also dont think our death is the end of what we are. I believe our energy moves on to something else when it leaves our body.

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    I'm not very religious at all ; I mean I celebrate Christian holidays but beyond that, I don't really care. I do think our lives are meaningless but I don't think its really the end when we die. Do I think we go to heaven or anything like that? No but I can't believe that I'm in this body and then when I die, I become nothing. I think of like an afterlife, where you don't remember it but you're put into another body so to speak... I believe this because if not, I will live on this planet for however long and then when the sun burns up, i'll be dust in the ground from billions of years. I can't wrap my head around that

    Then to get a little deeper, I think of why i'm in this particular body and not some other, more successful vessel as it were.

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    Aint it Fun The Dude's Avatar
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    I used to be completely atheist and even quite anti religion.

    After coming out of hospital around 2010 something changed and I now consider myself agnostic. I just don't know. I even respect religious people because at least they have some sort of purpose and generally believe in something good. I never understood Satanists. If you're going to believe in something, at least believe in something good. That being said, at lot of the music I tend to like is either very anti religion or worse but I'm not bothered.

    Sometimes I get paranoid that my actions in everyday life decide what will happen to me after I die. I usually try and shrug this off as mental health.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I never understood Satanists. If you're going to believe in something, at least believe in something good.
    Do you know what Satanist believe in? Not Satan. Not nothing negative. They worship self. A lot of people read into the name too literally. Its a fault of their own. Their beliefs are based around doing what makes you the best person you can be. Look it up sometime. Its probably not what you think it is.

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    Aint it Fun The Dude's Avatar
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    I meant literal Satanists. Not just somebody who doesn't believe in God or whatever, I have absolutely no problem with that.

    My mums an atheist. Like I said, I used to be. I'm just not entirely convinced there isn't something else out there anymore... Probably because I'm bat-shit crazy but hey.

  11. #11
    Literal Satanists as someone who worships the Devil? I have never met someone in real life who does that. Please point me to them. I wanna know where they get their beliefs from. Is it made up? Do they have a text?

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    I mean they are asking for trouble with a name like that.

    It is an interesting name theologically though.

    For many Christians Satan isn't a literal figure with a pitchfork but an idea more than anything else.

    The concept of sin in a biblical context is following your own way instead of the way of God who made us. That is basically what you have outlined above in the worship of 'self' so I guess calling it Satinisim means it is a rejection of God and devotion to the opposite ideology.

    Late As Usual

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    Aint it Fun The Dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ageless Stranger View Post
    Literal Satanists as someone who worships the Devil? I have never met someone in real life who does that. Please point me to them. I wanna know where they get their beliefs from. Is it made up? Do they have a text?
    Check out Sammy Duet. I like him as a guitarist, he's very good but yes he literally worships Satan and is proud of it. I don't really care.

    There is a text I believe.

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    Senior Member JacobWrestledGod's Avatar
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    I m very Christian, cos to me it is the only world view that make sense in 3 ways.

    1) Free will. And because we have free will, we can choose evil. Which is why the world is suffering. Or we can choose love. Which is why despite suffering the world is worth living.
    2) consequence. Free Will also means consequences. U can choose to put your hand in the fire, but u canít choose not getting burn.
    3) God in a dilemma - itís like a loved one getting cancer. The more you love that person, the more you hate the cancer. Sin is our cancer. He has to judge sin, but he loves us. So what can he do?
    4) God solves his dilemma- now if someone takes the judgement on your behalf, you becomes a free man. Thatís the basis for Jesus. So holiness of God, in which to judge sin, is justified to bless us because Jesus has took the punishment on the cross. Justice of God, satisfied. Love of God, unleashed. Thatís why the cruxifition is so important to our beliefs.

    Thatís the threotical reason for my belief. I havenít even touch on personal experiences that form my beliefs. I wasnít born a Christian, I chose it.
    And Jacob wrestled with God.






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    I don't want to get at anyone for what they believe, but I have to confess that I'd be a liar if I said I could follow that.

    I have gone back and forth with people in the past, but still have big problems with the written texts - there's a huge number of problems for me in how they are put together, how they come down to us, why they are in that form in the first place, and so on.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
    After one dies, there is nothing. Life is basically pointless.
    Believing in some sort of a god is foolish, but believing that an exploding star created everything isn't.

    BUT...SCIENCE

  17. #17
    Aint it Fun The Dude's Avatar
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    They're both equally foolish. Who's to say God din't create the "big bang" or even science in it's entirety... but what if there is no god? Then what in somethings name have half the atrocities on earth been for!?

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    Senior Member JacobWrestledGod's Avatar
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    @prime time: I was only Christian in my adult life, having grown up hating God. But over the years I explored my own beliefs. As a Christian, I always find it very foolish when another Christian argues from the bible. It’s cheating, it is also a fallacy- arguement from authority- meaning, if I quote the bible and expect you to accept the authority from the bible, it’s never going to make you agreeable. after all isn’t the scriptures, God’s Word as I believe, the greatest authority for me but not for you?

    So it’s furtile for me to ever point to the scripture and tell you they are true, uncorrupted. Of cos it has passed through so many human hands - from Govts to the Churches to so many possible alterations. I can point to historical findings though that the Dead Sea scrolls which is the de-facto archaeology evidence of the earliest bible contains 95 percent accuracy to the modern day Hebrew Bible Book of Isaiah, but that’s besides the point. Your concern on ancient text is entirely valid.

    Now what drives my faith isn’t just a plain belief in scripture, or worst, a type of hybrid scientific faith where I stretch scientific reasoning to fit my own faith. I find my faith in the philosophical sphere, the logic in which only the Christian God’s redemption make perfect sense in this crazy world. Here’s why:

    1) if there is a God why suffer? - the bible explains it as free will. This is the basic tenet of other religion as well. Buddhists calls it Karma, Islam calls it a Trial (life’s a test), Christians calls it the original sin where Adam and Eve chose to rebel.

    2) every human sins, because we are not perfect. and if I am suffering due to my sin, which is an result of my own imperfection as a human, what gives God the right to punish me? A God who says to me, unless u are perfectly obedient to me, you go to hell- what type of “loving God” is that?

    3. however if a God which governs the universe tells me that He chooses who to go to heaven based on merit, meaning, God loves me who have some sin more compared to a murderer who has more sins, it would show a weird God who kinda love someone more than the other based on some divine line in the cosmic. What kind of”loving God” is that? (Btw this is the basic tenet of Islam- submission, but never assurance)

    4. So then I believe in a being so perfect that no man can enter his presence, and such a God is neither worth my love and worship, only fear. Then came Christianity. And they say - yes you are not worthy, not even a tiny bit, unless u are perfect of which there is none. So God being the justice can’t just forgive anyone, but being love He must love us. In this dilemma, He solves the issue by sending a sin offering - one that takes our sins and allow God to exact his judgement on- thus freeing us from the obligation of being perfect before we can go to heaven. That’s the cross.

    These are my personal argument for the case of Christianity, and what makes me believe. If you are truly interested, here’s a great extract that deals with the fundamentals of my belief:

    Last edited by JacobWrestledGod; 01-14-2018 at 04:14 AM.
    And Jacob wrestled with God.






  19. #19
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    OK, that was a lot clearer. There are a few things in there we can probably draw talk about some more when I get more time to post but in the meantime, thanks for clarifying.

  20. #20
    You start off your argument with "if there is no god, why suffer". I'd just like to ask you why does having no god preclude suffering?

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    It starts if there is A god why suffer, not no god.

  22. #22
    Oops. I can't read.

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