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Thread: "Patient Gaming" thread - Let's talk about older games

  1. #1
    Remember me? Degenerate's Avatar
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    "Patient Gaming" thread - Let's talk about older games

    I love new game releases and seeing what incredible things game companies can come up with nowadays. But it's often overwhelming. First off, you need to have the latest console or put in money towards a higher-end PC. Then you have to deal with games potentially being rushed / buggy to the point that it directly affects gameplay - while still paying at least $60 for the game (in Japan it's worse - some titles cost about $80 on release day). Basically, you need steady stream of disposable income if you want to keep up with the latest, and then risk having to wait for patches to fix the damn game.

    Lately, I've been having a lot more fun going back and picking up games that I never got a chance to play when they were first released. Especially on the PC using Steam, you can find a ton of classic games released a few years ago that are on sale for super-cheap. But you can also go to any place with used video games and pick up physical copies for any console on the cheap. Best of all, I don't have to deal with what I mentioned above. If you're still rockin' a PS2 or original Xbox, you don't need to get a new console. If you're on a PC, you don't need to shell out hundred of dollars on a new video card or CPU. Games will be a fraction of the cost of when they were originally released, and any bugs will be all patched up. They're all big wins for me.

    I wanted to start a general thread to talk about older games - any games you've been playing for older consoles / PC, asking for suggestions on older games to play for a specific platform, or just general talk about classic games that people might not know about.

    To start it off, I recently picked up an old copy of Kingdom Hearts for the PS2. I'm a big fan of Square, but I never got around to playing this one when it was released. It really captures the Disney spirit while mixing in a lot of Square's property like Final Fantasy characters without making it feel forced. There's a lot to explore as well. I'm about 6-7 hours in but it seems I'm barely scratching the surface with it. For a 15-year-old game, it doesn't feel dated. The gameplay isn't groundbreaking and the storyline is really light-hearted, but I've been having a lot of fun with it.

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    As I only have a PS3 and a Wii set up, this is all the gaming I really do. Buying pre-owned stuff has basically been my way and it's very rare I'll splurge on something new since.... oh, since the days of the SNES.

    I've got Final Fantasy X on the go but the problem I find is that those immersive games were so much better when you had the time to play them for hours and get lost in them. Being an adult has some major downsides and the fact that you can't just get lost in those worlds so easily is one of them.

    Also been running through a lot of the Lego games for the Wii. I stopped playing them for a long time then finished the one I had going and one I'd not really got to, and enjoyed them so much I promptly went out and bought another couple pre-owned. They are years old now and they never really got the bugs sorted but I just think they're a lot of fun.

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    The Brain
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    I love going back to old games for the first time. If I finish the Heenan Series before I die of old age, taking my first ever run at Final Fantasy VII is the next thing on my list!

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    This is such a cheaper way of playing games as well Degen, especially if you take advantage of the insane Steam sales each year.

    At the start of last year I played through the first two Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic games. Talk about fantastic, especially when you add on some of the mods to them like the excellent Restored Content mod. I also did a Nuzloke run through Pokemon FireRed before that which was fun and challenging.

    Right now when I get time I pop onto Stardew Valley which may be a newer game but everything about it is steeped in nostalgia.

    I didn't have a PlayStation so I never quite got into Kingdom Hearts or any of the Final Fantasy games but I know their reputation, I'd read a column series on Final Fantasy Mizfan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I've got Final Fantasy X on the go but the problem I find is that those immersive games were so much better when you had the time to play them for hours and get lost in them. Being an adult has some major downsides and the fact that you can't just get lost in those worlds so easily is one of them.
    Tell me about it. Earlier this year I was able to spend a considerable amount of time playing through Fallout 4 for about three months and was able to finish one of the main stories, but there was so much left to explore. I could have easily spent the rest of the year exploring the Wasteland of Fallout 4, but I wanted to play some other games so I had to give it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I love going back to old games for the first time. If I finish the Heenan Series before I die of old age, taking my first ever run at Final Fantasy VII is the next thing on my list!
    It's such a great game, Everything about it - the story, the characters, the music - is just pure excellence in my opinion. I'm sure it holds up perfectly well now, 20 years later. Be warned that this is a pretty long game. Look at spending at least 40 hours just for the main game, substantially more if you want to explore a few side quests. I think I logged 65 in-game hours when this game came out, and that was even with the strategy guide aiding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    This is such a cheaper way of playing games as well Degen, especially if you take advantage of the insane Steam sales each year.
    Yep, this is where I've gotten most of my games this year after building a new PC. There's supposedly going to be another huge Steam sale in the next few days for Halloween, so I'm looking forward to it, although my game backlog won't get any shorter...

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    Right now when I get time I pop onto Stardew Valley which may be a newer game but everything about it is steeped in nostalgia.
    This is one game that so many people have recommended but I haven't bought yet. I think I'll be pulling the trigger on buying it if it's on sale during the upcoming Steam sale.

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    I didn't expect to like Stardew Valley based on what it is about but it just oozes bucket loads of charm and has a really nice pace to it.

    The farming feels rewarding and the exploration is genuinely joyful.

    From there it is a game where you can make of it what you want. You can min/max your crops and interactions to grow an empire or you can kind of go with the flow, make enough to survive and then look to do projects in the community around you.

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    That's basically the same everyone else describes the game. The appeal for me is more of the relaxing nature of the game. I'd love something to be able to play for 30 minutes at a time and just feel calm.

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    So I was just looking at the this thread and noticed the appreciation of old RPG's coming through and I wanted to bring up how I feel like the restrictions of size that developers had to deal with in the past made much more focused and narratively engaging RPGs than the sprawling but far less focused open world affairs that seem to dominate the RPG world these days.

    If I look at the evolution of Bioware games I can see how they slowly got larger and larger and that meant having to fill their worlds with 'stuff' to do: fetch quests, collectables, unrelated side quests. It also meant that they had to assign devs to create and make those spaces. It just seems that they are now struggling to find enough stuff to put into the spaces they want to create whereas previously the struggle was fitting everything they wanted to into the space they had.

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    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    My favourite game of all time, Beyond Good And Evil, is on Steam for 3.50 or something similar. I can't speak highly enough of it - I replay it at least once a year normally, although now that I've sold my console and don't have a personal laptop I'm not sure I'll get the chance to again.

    To give as quick a sypnosis as possible without giving much, if anything, away - you play a reporter called Jade who works to expose a conspiracy within the Government. It's set on a different planet, and was originally an XBox game. I think it's brilliant.

    One of the things that almost bothers me now with games is that they can do too much without actually improving playability of the game itself. Like, a first person shooter is a first person shooter, whether it's Goldeneye on the N64 or the latest Call Of Duty. To me there's not much difference between them, and adding various bells and whistles that are just requiring a player to do more frustrates me. It's why I've looked at getting a Switch or similar recently - the games on it don't seem to ask too much of whoever's playing them, and instead think about story and playability rather than having brilliant graphics and new features.

    I mean, I don't think I've played a WWE game that's noticably improved in a decade. Same with FIFA, every year they say 'oh, we've added x, y, and z' but in truth you still use a, b, and c far more than those new additions. I know that part of the appeal of a new FIFA is updated teams and players and so on, but really you could play any iteration of FIFA from across the years and it would still be like playing the current one.

    Part of me wishes I'd never sold my N64. Games like Banjo Kazooie, Lylat Wars, Goldeneye, Mario Kart, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Shadows Of The Empire, Rogue Squadron, Jet Force Gemini - they might not have looked brilliant, they might not have had crazy long draw distances and facial recognition stuff and online play (literally the scourge of modern gaming, in my opinion) but they were so damn playable they kept you going back for more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    So I was just looking at the this thread and noticed the appreciation of old RPG's coming through and I wanted to bring up how I feel like the restrictions of size that developers had to deal with in the past made much more focused and narratively engaging RPGs than the sprawling but far less focused open world affairs that seem to dominate the RPG world these days.

    If I look at the evolution of Bioware games I can see how they slowly got larger and larger and that meant having to fill their worlds with 'stuff' to do: fetch quests, collectables, unrelated side quests. It also meant that they had to assign devs to create and make those spaces. It just seems that they are now struggling to find enough stuff to put into the spaces they want to create whereas previously the struggle was fitting everything they wanted to into the space they had.
    That's an awesome point to make. I've recently noticed this myself after playing Fallout 4. The game is absolutely amazing, but there was just way too much stuff outside of the main quests to get you easily sidetracked, not to mention just stumbling upon random things and getting sucked into those. I usually don't mind these, and the randomness adds to the depth of the game, but the problem I had was that I was spending a lot of time completing some of these side missions only to end up with little to nothing of value. Too often I would get weapons or armor that were far weaker than anything I had already accumulated at that point, which I would end up either selling or ditching if I couldn't carry much else. It was too much noise. I don't know if this is a Fallout 4-specific issue, but I've read the same about other open world games like this.

    I think that's a big reason why my favorite recent game has been Doom, the one released last year. It's pretty linear gameplay, but each stage has just enough room to explore and have secrets that actually help you with powering up your stats or health / armor that are super-useful. I've actually replayed a few levels because I was missing half of the secrets at the end of each stage when I swore I looked everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    My favourite game of all time, Beyond Good And Evil, is on Steam for 3.50 or something similar. I can't speak highly enough of it - I replay it at least once a year normally, although now that I've sold my console and don't have a personal laptop I'm not sure I'll get the chance to again.
    I checked the game synopsis out and it looks like a cool game. Unfortunately I read that the PC port has issues with modern PCs which is not uncommon with older games like this, so maybe I'll hold off until I can maybe play it on a console / emulator. But thanks for the heads up on it so I can have it on my list of games to play in the near future, since it looks like a fun game to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    One of the things that almost bothers me now with games is that they can do too much without actually improving playability of the game itself. Like, a first person shooter is a first person shooter, whether it's Goldeneye on the N64 or the latest Call Of Duty. To me there's not much difference between them, and adding various bells and whistles that are just requiring a player to do more frustrates me. It's why I've looked at getting a Switch or similar recently - the games on it don't seem to ask too much of whoever's playing them, and instead think about story and playability rather than having brilliant graphics and new features.

    I mean, I don't think I've played a WWE game that's noticably improved in a decade. Same with FIFA, every year they say 'oh, we've added x, y, and z' but in truth you still use a, b, and c far more than those new additions. I know that part of the appeal of a new FIFA is updated teams and players and so on, but really you could play any iteration of FIFA from across the years and it would still be like playing the current one.
    I kind of agree on this, but mostly for sequels. My brother used to buy me Call of Duty games for my birthdays and after the third straight year I just asked him to get another game since it just felt like the same thing in a different setting.

    However, I do think there are distinguishing factors between a lot of games in the same genre. Using the aforementioned Doom again as an example, it really is just another first person shooter on the surface. There really isn't anything extra-special about the fundamentals of the game - you run around, you pick up new weapons, gather health, ammo and armor, and shoot the hell out of the enemies. But the setting of the game and the fast-twitch gameplay make it a lot of fun to play it regardless if it being the same as so many games of the past. I do get the sentiment about a lot of games being the same - there's way too few games that feel fresh these days.

    I won't be getting a console any time soon, but if I were to get one it would definitely be the Nintendo Switch. I still love Nintendo franchises, and the new Mario game looks amazing. I got a chance to play it for a little while this weekend at a local shop and it was super-fun. I'm glad that the Switch is almost impossible to find here in Japan still to this day, or else I would have most likely given in and gotten one on the spot just for the 10 minutes or so that I played that game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    online play (literally the scourge of modern gaming, in my opinion)
    OH MY GOD, YES. It really frustrates me to see so many games having online multiplayer as the main focus, often leaving the single-player experience way below the list of priorities. I rarely play online, mostly because I don't have the time to practice as much as others seem to do and it's no fun getting obliterated all the time in those games.

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    The Brain
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    I also hate online gaming.

    Love the N64 love earlier in the thread. Still got mine on the shelf, and pull it out from time to time.

    And Deg, after all the time I'm logging on this Heenan stuff, 65 hours of Final Fantasy sounds like a breeze!!

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    I don't know if it's funny or sad that back when Final Fantasy 7 came out, 65 hours on a game were nothing. But now that feels like it's completely impossible for me. I kind of wish that I had more gaming time, especially as my Steam backlog continues to grow. But at the same time I'm happy doing the other things I'm doing, and I probably wouldn't have had the time to spend for anything else. Balancing is tough.

    I never had a Nintendo 64, but thankfully I've been able to catch up to some games thanks to the power of emulators. There's still a lot of games I want to play on that system, though. I never did a full playthrough on any of the Zelda games for that system, which I'd like to do. I did manage to see most of Ocarina of Time thanks to an ex-girlfriend who was obssessed with the game at the time, so she would play it often. There's a few used video game shops here in Osaka, and they have some cheap Nintendo 64s on sale. Unfortunately they don't have many games in English so that would really hamper my gameplay.

    It's crazy that the old Nintendo systems and games still hold so much sentimental value, which reminds me of me selling my old Gamecube when I was moving to Japan. I posted it on Craigslist for $60 with a few games - including the Super Smash Bros. game that came out for that system. I apparently misjudged how valuable that game was because I got 3 messages within 5 minutes of posting it on Craigslist of people wanting to buy it. Since I was in the middle of this huge move and trying to sell everything as quickly as possible I just sold it to the first person who contacted me. In total, I got at least 15 messages in less than an hour of people asking if I still had the Gamecube, just because of the game. I should have sold the system and the game for a lot more, but at least it went to a college student who was super-stoked of getting it.

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    To address online gaming. In its place it can be fun, for instance I played a lot of Halo on the Xbox 360 online and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. However that is a game that is made for online play as the focus, when you buy it, you get it for the multilayer.

    What I just hate is how they shoehorn it into what should be single player games. I talk a lot about Bioware because they have a lot of games I love but the inclusion of multiplayer in Mass Effect iinnow see as the beginning of the end for the series. No one gets it for that, no one does it as a priority and it is not developed with the polish required to make it a reason people WOULD pick up the game. Instead it is done as a blatant way for EA to shoehorn in microtransactions. In ME3 they even had the gall to make it impossible to get the better endings without spending hour and hours in their crappy multiplayer that would never stand alone as an experience you would pay money for. For the most recent game they have stopped releasing single player DLC despite leaving a number of huge story threads untied for dlc and are instead pushing out map and character packs for their shitty multiplayer.

    Anyway I have got way off the original theme.

    To go back to it if you get a chance buy Stardew Valley. It will help quiet the rage you feel when thinking about the state of the modern gaming industry.

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    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    I think the most time I ever put into a gaming experience (at least, where it was recorded) was probably across the original Mass Effect trilogy. Bearing in mind my first kid had just been born and for the first three months or so of her life I took the first night shift with her sleeping on me downstairs while my wife got something approaching uninterrupted sleep for 3/4 hours, I pretty much spent 90 days playing 3 hours or so of those games a day. I did absolutely everything on them, mined all the planets, any side mission I could, the works.

    I'd never get the time to do it now.

    With the second kid I did the same, but I was in deep on WWE Supercard and that became my game of choice at the time. I still found time to fit in Alan Wake, though, which is a masterpiece.

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    The Brain
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    Shit, do people really care that much about Smash Bros Melee?? I've still got a disc back at my Mom's house. Maybe I should look into selling it, as if I go back to play Smash I almost always play original or Brawl.

    Man, I know just what you mean Deg about those hours being a lot more difficult to come by now. I swear to god, hours were longer when we were younger.

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    Super Nintendo Classic has been awesome to explore because I owned Genesis during the time it was popular. I don't regret being a Genesis guy (Street Fighter 2 was only game I was jealous of SNES for at the time) but I'm loving going back and playing A Link to the Past, FF3, Mario RPG and more. One game that did not age well: Star Fox. Looks like shit.

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    That was called Starwing here. Was the game that came with my SNES so played it a lot. Thought it looked like crap even then but always enjoyed the game play.

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    Supposedly GameBoy Classic is next although I'd love a N64 Classic. I was discussing with a friend the games that should be included, and there's got to be one of the THQ wrestling games on there. I just wonder if they'd need WWE permission and if WWE would allow it.

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I think the most time I ever put into a gaming experience (at least, where it was recorded) was probably across the original Mass Effect trilogy. Bearing in mind my first kid had just been born and for the first three months or so of her life I took the first night shift with her sleeping on me downstairs while my wife got something approaching uninterrupted sleep for 3/4 hours, I pretty much spent 90 days playing 3 hours or so of those games a day. I did absolutely everything on them, mined all the planets, any side mission I could, the works.

    I'd never get the time to do it now.

    With the second kid I did the same, but I was in deep on WWE Supercard and that became my game of choice at the time. I still found time to fit in Alan Wake, though, which is a masterpiece.
    Glad to see a fellow Mass Effect lover.

    Mass Effect is easily this for me. It is pretty much the only game I have replayed since I became an adult and I have replayed all 3 of the original trilogy in different ways multiple times.

    Loved going in and crafting stories where across the 3 games Shep goes from wide eyed and idealistic to brutally ruthless or even just my first run of each game where he was basically John Cena in a space suit, always minding his p's & q's. It was so interesting to see the subtly different ways Te world and story are effected by your different actions.

    It is a damn shame how much the new game sacrificed character and story for this ridiculous open world ideal and as you can see I wasn't exactly a fan of the multilayer.

    Have you played it's spiritual father KOTOR?

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    The Brain
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    Mario RPG is the shit!!! Love that game.

    Also agree with Pete that original Star Fox can be fun despite the incredibly rough attempt at "3D" graphics.

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    Star Fox / Starwing feels and looks kind of crappy now, but you have to keep in mind that when this game was released in 1993 it blew everyone's mind that a console like the SNES was capable of that. I think nowadays it's more nostalgic than fun to play and it hasn't aged all that well.

    I also vouch for Super Mario RPG. I loved that game when it came out. I rented it for almost a full week and played the hell out of it. Paper Mario for Gamecube and Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time for the Nintendo DS are also fantastic Mario RPGs.

    I'm actually kind of tempted to pick up a used Nintendo 3DS. I had an original DS and liked the system a lot.

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    It was ten years ago when I last played (at least) but I really enjoyed it, still. Played through a good few levels before my being worse than I remembered came into play.

    I sometimes run old games that'll work on my laptop, but the games I used to like took time, and that's the main obstacle for most things nowadays.

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    Remember me? Degenerate's Avatar
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    I get that - nowadays that's a big factor on deciding which game I should play next. One of my favorite sites is https://howlongtobeat.com/. Whenever there's a game I'd like to play, I check the site and see how long the main game takes to beat. If it's anything over 30-40 hours, I will probably skip it unless I really, really want to play it for whatever reason.

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    That's a great site. Some of the stats on action RPGs are crazy. Someone spent 1502 hours on Skyrim which is more than 66 days.

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    Remember me? Degenerate's Avatar
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    I have a co-worker who's apparently spent over 3000 hours playing Dota 2 and still plays to this day, which is insane. I don't think I've ever spent more than 100 in-game hours playing any game in my life. I've steered clear of MMORPGs because of that, I don't want to get hooked to something that I'll need massive time investments on.

    I recently picked up Wolfenstein: The New Order for cheap on an online sale (less than $7.00). I love first-person shooters with a good single-player story and gameplay. Since I finished the latest version of Doom recently I wanted to get another first-person shooter and this was had been highly recommended by a lot of people for a long time. I had also played a lot of the older Wolfenstein games and have enjoyed them a lot. I've only played about an hour or so of The New Order but it's blown me away. It's a little over three years old now but it looks amazing and the gameplay is fun and varied. I'd recommend picking this up if someone finds it on sale.

    One interesting thing about when I bought this game - I almost couldn't get it on this sale because apparently this game has special versions for selling it in Germany and Japan, and the sale only applied for the U.S. version. Thankfully my Steam account is still registered under a U.S. address so I was able to bypass it. I'm not sure what difference the Japanese version has, but the German version of the game is pretty censored in a lot of places.

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    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    I remember someone telling me they spent 2000 hours playing WOW. I just cannot fathom being that interested in a game. Most I've spent was 148hrs as a kid playing Pokemon Silver, since being an adult it would be the Mass Effect series which would probably be somewhere around 100 across 3 games or Witcher 3 which would be around 60 for it and all the DLC.

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    That site has made me think I might never get back into Final Fantasy X. Can't imagine spending the equivalent of a few days on a game now, just because I doubt I can justify it to myself.

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    As long as you avoid excessive Blitzball and the lightning dodge mini games, you should be able to shave a couple of hours off the total gameplay. It'll still be a crazy amount of hours in any case.

    The main problem I find myself with getting into long games like that is that I already have a huge backlog of games I've gotten for cheap that I eventually want to play. It's difficult to strike a balance between blowing through a game because I want to finish it and taking my time to enjoy it.

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    Haha, fucking Blitzball. I did the absolute minimum of that.

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