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Thread: International Football (World Cup, Euros, Qualifiers, England, Etc.)

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    International Football (World Cup, Euros, Qualifiers, England, Etc.)

    Ok as it's trending on Twitter at the moment I thought I'd bring it up here. Who are the worst England players ever and can you make up a worst ever XI? Also whilst whatever Graham Taylor put out would probably be an acceptable answer, please try to be more creative.

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    Well, I can't really vouch for worst players ever, but I'll make a list of worst players in my lifetime. I'm going to assume that they at least got a run in team for a period of time, one off appearances shouldn't count in my book:

    Robert Green. Personally, he was chosen as the best of a bad bunch. If I recall correctly, Robinson had suffered a 'mare against Croatia which destroyed his confidence and Green replaced him. Never confident under the sticks and quite honestly just an all around average keeper. Not international material.

    Danny Mills: A decent defender, mainly a right-back, but again not international material.

    Wes Brown: His international career may have been blocked due to Neville holding that position for the majority of the time, but for a guy with 23 caps, I can't for the life of me remember him ever playing for England...

    At this point I would normally go for two more defenders to make it an even 4-4-2, but honestly, England have always had decent defenders, the problem lies in the midfield... To name a few:

    Stuart Downing, Darren Anderton, David Batty, Tom Cleverley, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Jemaine Jenas, Nicky Butt...

    I'll explain the Tom Cleverley one, the rest are purely there for not really impressing on the international stage for the amount of caps they all have. I think Cleverly might have an important role in the future, however I am not convinced yet by his ability to command the midfield, for club or country. A lot of attention has been made that he and Wilshere will be the next Gerrard and Lampard. A duo which NEVER worked. So if I had to choose between the two, I'd pick Wilshere. Sure, I'm an Arsenal fan so my view may be biased, but I think the neutral will see more potential in Wilshere than Cleverley. The only possible downside is his injury-prone self...

    As for the strikers... hard to choose two that had enough of a run but...

    Emile Heskey: 62 caps. 7 goals. Not enough. Yes, he and Owen did play well with each other for a bit, with Owen grabbing the goals, but I can't accept a striker scoring once every 9/10 games. Depending on the year, that's no more than once a year.

    Ashley Young: Yes, more of a winger than a striker, but another guy who I think is massively over his head at Manchester United and underwhelming for England.

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    Bit harsh on Graham Taylor... there's always Don Revie, who's failures were far more spectacular. But then given his club record, I would stick up for Taylor, wouldn't I?

    I'd agree with most of Gooner's post apart from maybe the inclusions of Darren Anderton and Nicky Butt. Butt was in and out of the side a lot, often coming off the bench, but I thought he was a good servant who did well when given the opportunity... like in 2002, for example. Not really sure why Anderton is in there at all really, I remember him being a very decent England player in the mid-Nineties. Always one of the guys that you bring up when we talk about 'if only it weren't for injuries'.

    Without giving it a lot of thought, I'd probably go for Rob Green, David Bardsley, Nicky Shorey, Tony Dorigo, Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Lee Sharpe, David Bentley, Kieron Dyer,
    Brian Deane and David Nugent. Not sure if enough of those have played enough to meet anyone's criteria, but that's my first instinct.



    As for Wilshere vs Cleverley, and the neutral seeing more in the former... I must be honest and at this point think both are more reputation than anything. Not really convinced that either of them are going to be in the same league as Gerrard or Lampard. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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    What about Barkley, Prime? I've been impressed with the snippets of him I've seen. They've been talking about him around Liverpool for a good few years now too. Could he turn out to be the best of the three?

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    I really like the look of Barkley. He has slotted into the Everton side seamlessly and made the departure of Fellaini much more easy to bear, and in many ways fits the Martinez philosophy far better than Fellaini does. He's got quick feet, an eye for goal and surprisingly good awareness for such a young player. He and Lukaku destroyed us a few weeks back in the first half, and I think he'll be a huge player in the future.

    Wilshere's time will come, he needs a season without the expectation that being in the England team brings. He is in the same position as Aaron Ramsey was 12 months ago, and look at Ramsey now...we wish he was English, all of a sudden. Cleverley is looking more and more overrated with each game. He's trying too hard, and he's not doing himself any favours. He looked very good a couple of seasons back, but perhaps he's struggling with the pressure of being Scholes' replacement. That's not a good sign for him.

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    Barkley will be more of a goal threat, I think. A bit more direct than the others, and probably more likely to run beyond the attackers. I do like the look of him and think that there's great potential there.

    As for Wilshere, the big test for him will be getting into the Arsenal team consistently. With Ozil now there, Flamini back, Arteta not putting a foot wrong, Ramsey finding some form, and let's not forget Cazorla, if he doesn't up his game he'll turn into another Denilson. If - or when, if you prefer to think positively about his long term trajectory - he raises his game to get back into the side, then England can only reap the benefits of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Without giving it a lot of thought, I'd probably go for Rob Green, David Bardsley, Nicky Shorey, Tony Dorigo, Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Lee Sharpe, David Bentley, Kieron Dyer,
    Brian Deane and David Nugent. Not sure if enough of those have played enough to meet anyone's criteria, but that's my first instinct.
    I thought of most of them too, however looking it up, they dont seem to have a decent amount of caps to worthy a "worst ever" tag.

    Maybe I'm being harsh on Anderton... I just remember him being a kind of Milner figure. In the team, but not really cherished.

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    Well, like all players there were always some questions about whether the team was better with him in it, and whether injuries made him too unreliable and all that sort of thing. But then, we've seen even the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Owen et al all suffer from that at various points.


    As for Milner, I still maintain that he's got a bit of the Hargreaves problem. He's too versatile for his own good. At Villa, he looked a genuinely world class centre midfielder, able to provide a goal threat, to make things happen for strikers, but also able to run around the pitch for 120 minutes and tackle as well as most centre backs. No matter where he has been, when he's been a winger he's been at best 'decent Premier League' standard, and that's mostly been where he's been used by City and England since his transfer. Of the three wingers we sold in that twelve month period, Milner is the biggest loss of the three - although people raved about Young, I always thought that his career at United might play out exactly as it has up to now. Milner, though, has just been a colossal waste of talent in blue.



    I guess you might be right, although I suppose by definition the fact that people rack up caps mean they can't be that bad. No one ever played that many games for England by being terrible. Even Heskey - the only thing he didn't ever really do was put the ball in the net. He still provided a lot to the team, and plenty of Owen's goals wouldn't have gone in without Big Emile. So, yeah, I dunno, I think when you think of the 'worst' then you're going to immediately go to people with, say, 25 caps or less. Jenas has probably more caps than anyone without making any kind of impact, I'd say... not that he is a bad player or anything, so I'm not sure exactly what went wrong for him. Never seemed to either get the real chance, or make the step up, or whatever it was.

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    I think that's the thing about these type of discussions. You could just put 11 players all of which racked up less than 5 caps each, but then it doesn't really add to the whole debate well. So, I take into account number of caps and depending on that, how they performed during said caps based on their talent and opportunities. Case in point, Michael Carrick. Possibly our best passer of the ball. Yet he has less caps (by quite a margin in fact) than Stuart Downing. Now don't get me wrong, Downing has at times produced good performances, but he shouldn't have the amount of caps that he does in my opinion. He was the only "naturally" left sided midfielder we had for some time and as such got picked regularly...

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    Not if compared with other English left wingers in history, perhaps... but considering the dearth of talent we've had on the wings, I'm happy enough that he's got that many caps. I've seen far worse players capped. As for Carrick... he's a funny one. For years he never seemed to do anything in an England shirt and was a really unpopular call-up with the neutral. I wonder if that holds him back a bit now he's recognised as one of the finer English midfielders?

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    Yeah... I dunno. Unless it was the top four, I'm not sure. I'd definitely take it for the title, probably take it for the top four, but I think to finish 6th again... I'd rather just be entertained. Unless the alternative was relegation. Complicated issue for me.


    Right, so with the international games coming up I thought I'd take a look at the England squad and who is in the frame, currently, for the World Cup. I'm going to lump in anyone who is in fine form, plus the usual suspects, so by the end of the post there should be pretty much every option available to England barring anyone who makes a late surge for the squad.

    In goal: Despite being dropped by Man City, Joe Hart is still the number one and probably will be come the start of the tournament. The man nearest to him and the one people want to see given a chance is the only other English goalkeeper with plenty of CL experience, Celtic's Fraser Forster. He's also in fine form and barring something unexpected will definitely be on the plane.

    Jon Ruddy is the man with the third goalkeeping jersey at the minute, and with very few English goalkeepers in the top flight it's difficult see someone dislodging him. The most likely candidate is WBA's Ben Foster, who with 6 caps to Ruddy's one and a spell at Man United might be seen as a safer pair of hands. The only other real contenders are David Stockdale, and people outside the top flight, so I reckon it'll be Hart, Forster, and either Ruddy or Foster.


    Right Back: A position where we've got quite a bit of talent, to be honest. Glen Johnson has the shirt, has the experience, and is the man in form, so he's in pole position. Kyle Walker isn't too far behind and is proven as capable. It's unfortunate for Joel Ward that no Palace player is going to get a look in, or he'd be in with half a chance. In the event that one of those two are unavailable, I reckon they'll turn to Nathaniel Clyne of Southampton, or ask one of the versatile Man United defenders, Chris Smalling or Phil Jones, to cover the position.

    Left Back: Baines or Cole. That's going to be the decision for Hodgson, provided both are fit. I wouldn't mind betting that Cole plays against the better sides, and maybe Baines against weaker opposition that we'd be expected to beat. No idea where you turn if one or both of those go down injured. Barry is in fine form but hasn't played LB consistently for years. Luke Shaw has been in fine form at So'ton but is untested. Kieran Gibbs has been less impressive at Arsenal but obviously is more used to that kind of pressure. The off the wall choice would be Ridgewell, who probably isn't as good at some aspects of the job as some of the other names, but is very solid for WBA, carries a goal threat and has the benefit of versatility.


    Centre Back: Cahill and Jagielka are the men holding the shirts after the Poland game, and Jagielka is probably one of the first names on the teamsheet given current form. With John Terry, the next 'big name' defender if you put them in form order, retired from international football, and Cahill not guaranteed a starting berth for Chelsea, the other spot could be available - and the two CB's who go in support might well be up for grabs too. Cahill is in the mix, and with their versatility you can't rule out Jones or Smalling either. However, the picture changes when we consider form. Curtis Davies is playing his way into contention, showing some of the promise he hasn't done since halfway through his Villa spell. If he suffers from playing at unfashionable Hull, then Michael Dawson should be in the frame. Caulker, Steven Taylor and Ryan Shawcross are also all on the radar and could all play their way into contention.

    Defensive/central midfield: On form right now, you'd probably pick the Liverpool/Everton pairing of Gerrard and Barry in the middle. No one English is doing a better job of keeping his team ticking over than Barry; no English midfielder is more creative than Gerrard. Plus, we know from past experience, that they love playing alongside each other. If they played like this for most of the season, then they'll certainly be on the radar.

    However, given the age of both men and the fact that Barry was never the quickest, even if they continue to play brilliant football it's no given that they'll both go. Gerrard, as captain, is a shoe-in as long as he's fit. Michael Carrick might be a more popular choice to sit alongside him. Frank Lampard has adapted pretty well to a more circumspect role at Chelsea. Milner's strongest position is in the middle. Jack Wilshere will always be in the mix, regardless of form, given his natural ability. People seem to keep one eye on Cleverley regardless of his actual performances, too. If there is a position that we have plenty of strength, though, it's here - with players at several clubs in good form there are any number of players that you could insert into these positions - Delph, Noble, Huddlestone, Ward-Prowse, Barkley, Livermore, Ravel Morrison - none of these players will probably go, but they've all done enough up until now to be given the courtesy of not being ruled out.


    Wide/attacking midfield: This is probably where England have suffered the most over the years - we've always got 'decent' wingers, or a 'decent' number ten, but never have quite the same ability to hurt teams from these positions as some other nations that we feel we should be competing with.

    Andros Townsend is the new name in town and he'll be on people's lips, but a lot will depend on how much game time he gets for Spurs. You can say the same thing about Aaron Lennon. Adam Lallana is definitely in contention, as things stand, not least for his versatility. In a similar position is Jordan Henderson, who's playing some fine football and is flexible enough for tournament football. Milner can play wide and is a favourite for his discipline. That's five players for probably four shirts, and we haven't even mentioned Walcott, or Oxlade-Chamberlain, or Raheem Sterling yet - all players that have been out of the eye and are a bit forgotten about, but could soon find their way back in. As it stands, given all this competition Ashley Young and Stewart Downing have a lot to do before they are getting on the plane.


    Strikers: The unfortunate truth is that we still have just one genuinely world class striker in Wayne Rooney, and our chances of getting beyond the second round of any tournament are always going to be in some way dependent on his fitness and form. Rickie Lambert has made his way into the squad and, given his technical ability and the likelihood that we'll have no one more capable of replacing Rooney in any system, he's probably got a better chance of going than anyone would have thought possible 12 months ago. Daniel Sturridge has been an absolute revelation and his ability to stretch defences should create space for Rooney, as well as providing a threat of his own. Generally, though, striking is not an area we're strong in and, aside from Jay Rodriguez, the names are the old usual suspects - Defoe if he plays enough, Carroll if he's fit enough, Welbeck perhaps, and if there's an injury crisis, Agbonlahor, Crouch and Bent.




    So as I see it, we've probably got enough at GK if Hart finds his form again, or Forster gets given the nod ahead of him. We're actually pretty sorted in defence, with plenty of options in both full back positions. The only question at CB is how to get the best out of the many options available. Similarly, there's no shortage of options in central midfield and it's just about finding a balance, two players who'll complement each other. The challenge is at the sharp end, finding a way to get the best out of Rooney and also getting the right players who can hurt people onto the wings or forward midfield positions.

    It's basically different personnel, but the same conundrum, we've faced repeatedly since 2005.

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    Wales seems to be the exact opposite of the England team you set up. Winger/Attacking midfield: Gareth Bale. Best in the world. Sorted. Everywhere else: Er... one of Blodwyn's sheep ate a football once. Reckon it'd be any good in goal?

    England-and-Wales should be one country like Serbia-and-Montenegro used to be one country. Then you wouldn't be having these problems.

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    Historically, lots of other countries have been pissed off about Britain, one country in global terms, getting four bites at the cherry. They've wanted us rolled into one, because they point out that (like the US for example) no matter how much we 'pretend' to be four different countries in one, in reality that's a bit of an illusion and we're just one country.

    I can think of some players who might have done quite well playing in a combined XI - George Best, Ryan Giggs, Kenny Dalglish, Gareth Bale, Aaron Ramsey...


    As for Wales... harsh reality is just too many of the players aren't top flight, so they are always going to be major underdogs. Get your best XI out consistently and you've half a chance of getting to something... but still only half a chance...

    Boaz Myhill; Adam Matthews, Neil Taylor, Ashley Williams, James Collins; Aaron Ramsey, Jonathan Williams, Joe Allen, Joe Ledley, Gareth Bale; Sam Vokes.


    That leaves you with a bench of Hennessey; Dummett, Davies, Gunter; Cotterill, Vaughn, Crofts; Church, Robson-Kanu.


    You are very quickly into Ok-but-not-great Championship players, so without some more solid PL quality coming through to support the Ramsey's and Bale's, then there just isn't enough there.

  14. #14
    Which is exactly why I wanted to join forces with England. You see how three of the five you mentioned were Welsh? Leave Scotland and Ireland out of this. They have their own countries that they're trying to wrest from the hands of the government.

    And they can get to a tournament once in a while too...

    I just want one Republic of Ireland style, punch-above-our-weight World Cup run. That's all.

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    I'd ask you to do the same for Scotland, but I don't even know half the players in the squad these days.

    If the unthinkable happens, and Joe Hart is injured for the World Cup - who do you put in goal? If the injury happens in time, you would have friendlies to prepare the stand-in, but what if it comes the day before Game 1?

    Also, can't Jagielka play LB as well, or am I thinking of someone else?

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    Jags can play pretty much anywhere, I think. I've seen him put the gloves on and do OK before now.

    I'd go Forster, if Hart were injured. Although I suppose if he's not played a game for England and the injury comes on day 1.... for me, that's why Foster probably needs to be the third keeper. Some experience, at least. Avoid another Carson moment.

    If I were to do the same for Scotland, it'd look a bit like this:

    David Marshall or Allan Macgregor in goal. Midfield of Scott Brown, Charlie Adam, James Morrison and Robert Snodgrass. Then you've got Fletcher and Naismith up front. The real issue is in defence, where the best you can do is out-of-favour Premier League players like Hutton, or Championship level. Some combination of Charlie Mulgrew, Grant Hanley, Alan Hutton, Steven Whittaker, Russell Martin and Christophe Berra would have to do it - but I'm not sure you can come up with a four to do the job.

    In other positions you've some good back-up, though. This didn't count Darren Fletcher, and there are some good championship players like Burke, Rhodes etc, not to mention Bannan, who didn't get into this side. If an Alan Hansen type were to emerge, or even a Colin Hendry, then everything would look much rosier.

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    I like the partnership Martin and Hanley are forming. In our last few games especially, they have, barring one or two shaky moments, been solid. Flanked by full-backs like the ever improving Mulgrew and the reliable Bardsley, we give ourselves a strong foundation on which to build.

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    Ah yeah, I forgot Bardsley. He was pretty solid at Villa, if unspectacular.

    I'll bow to your greater knowledge on Scotland, Pringle. I'm sure you've been paying more attention than me.

    Flesh, it occurs to me that you might be thinking of Lescott as the guy who can play LB? I think if Jagielka plays full back he tends to play on the right. He can also play DM in a push, I recall.


    Speaking of defensive midfielders, I am yet to be convinced that Phil Jones best position isn't in that anchorman kind of role.

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    I love Phil Jones, and from everything I've seen of him he screams anchor to me. Or even box to box, evolving ala Yaya Toure.



    Love Phil.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Ah yeah, I forgot Bardsley. He was pretty solid at Villa, if unspectacular.

    I'll bow to your greater knowledge on Scotland, Pringle. I'm sure you've been paying more attention than me.
    Great way to describe Bardsley, "unspectacular". Nothing flashy, but will always do a job.

    Perhaps Phil Jones is suffering at the hands of his own versatility. He's played solidly in various positions - anchor in particular - but can't seem to get a regular run in a set position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Speaking of defensive midfielders, I am yet to be convinced that Phil Jones best position isn't in that anchorman kind of role.
    An insight into how my mind works. I read that and immediately thought this.


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    That's epic.

    I'm a Phil Jones fan, but he's a CB (Not ChrisBear) and that's where he needs to settle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Ah yeah, I forgot Bardsley. He was pretty solid at Villa, if unspectacular.

    I'll bow to your greater knowledge on Scotland, Pringle. I'm sure you've been paying more attention than me.

    Flesh, it occurs to me that you might be thinking of Lescott as the guy who can play LB? I think if Jagielka plays full back he tends to play on the right. He can also play DM in a push, I recall.


    Speaking of defensive midfielders, I am yet to be convinced that Phil Jones best position isn't in that anchorman kind of role.
    Probably was Lescott actually. Knew it was someone from Everton, but couldn't remember who. Also these days, if Strachan decides he wants to play people in their club positions, Mulgrew would most likely end up centre-mid alongside Scott Brown, they've been doing really well together there recently for Celtic (the away game at Ajax showed just how much we need Brown there though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Bear View Post
    I'm a Phil Jones fan, but he's a CB (Not ChrisBear) and that's where he needs to settle
    I was going to reply to this and say something to the effect of 'well, he might be, but he's not done enough there to convince me yet'...

    and then he had a very decent outing the other night. Hard to fault him for too much individually, and had a far better game than Gary Cahill. I know it's only one match, and the likelihood is that Jags is first choice CB and that might cost Jones... but still, I've got to say he's done something to convince me now. Laid down a marker, at least.

    Pretty poor from the team as a whole, though. Looked like they got pretty well outplayed by a better side. Be interesting to see if Jay Rodriquez gets another chance in a few days or if Roy goes for something a bit more tried and tested against the Germans.

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    I would have possibly agreed if you had said it too, he'd have been a great CM 10 years ago, but these days, a top CM needs more composure, and, well finesse I think. Still, I suppose there is always a time for someone like him. His versatility will get him on the plane though, so he doesn't care

    Hopefully England raise it against Germany, I'm just a bit falling out of love with England this year. God forbid I have to support Australia

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    Ok, so Scotland are playing like champions...

    We were quite poor yesterday, against Norway, in comparison to how we've performed lately under Strachan. Nothing was quite clicking and everything seemed disjointed. Totally against the run of play, Scott Brown drove one home with the assist from a deflection, and just like that, we have back to back wins away from home for the first time since 2007. Always a good sign when you play poorly and win.

    So, yeah.. We're going to win the Euros and everything...

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    Difference between England and Germany according to the FUT team I am building on FIFA:

    I got Gundogan in a pack on FIFA. I sold Gundogan. With that money, I signed Walcott, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Young, Sturridge and still have a good amount of cash left over.

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    Ha! How much did you sell him for? Those mid level English players are pretty cheap, stepping upto the next level is where the step up is crazy. My team at the minute is, as a 3-4-1-2, Cech/Begovic - Sahko/Vermaelan, Terry/Ferdinand, Vertgonan/Agger - Walcott/Meralsis, Carrick/Cabaye, Arteta/Lampard, Pinnaer/Sinclair - Dembele/Kagawa - Soldado/Hernadez, Negredo/Berbatov.

    That's about as good as you will get without spending 15k plus on a player. Stepping up to Hazard, Rooney, Silva, etc is far too expensive for a casual player with no patience to play the market like myself!

    Oh, and your point about England and Germany is spot on. Seen an interesting stat last night. England have over 150 One Cap wonders. Germany have 8. I think that tells a story in itself.


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    First back-to-back Wembley defeats since England were at there worst in the 70s, under the management of Don Revie.

    Of course, that doesn't mean that we're the worst we've been since then, but does tell us a little bit about how the landscape of football has shifted. Without a major statement by an England team, and more talented youngsters coming through, we could be just one of the pack before too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Ha! How much did you sell him for? Those mid level English players are pretty cheap, stepping upto the next level is where the step up is crazy. My team at the minute is, as a 3-4-1-2, Cech/Begovic - Sahko/Vermaelan, Terry/Ferdinand, Vertgonan/Agger - Walcott/Meralsis, Carrick/Cabaye, Arteta/Lampard, Pinnaer/Sinclair - Dembele/Kagawa - Soldado/Hernadez, Negredo/Berbatov.

    That's about as good as you will get without spending 15k plus on a player. Stepping up to Hazard, Rooney, Silva, etc is far too expensive for a casual player with no patience to play the market like myself!

    Oh, and your point about England and Germany is spot on. Seen an interesting stat last night. England have over 150 One Cap wonders. Germany have 8. I think that tells a story in itself.
    Last year I had a Best of La Liga team -Ronaldo and Messi... It was awesome, Xavi, Iniesta, Falcao all in there. I am a day in this year and already have a decent Prem team similar to yours. I got 33.5k for Gundogan. My team is now 3-4-2-1 Hart/Vorm, Sakho/Huth, Vertongen/M'Biwa, Vermaelen/Cissokho, Gerrard/Daxler, Wilshere/Flamini, Young/Chadli, Lennon/Ox, Walcott/Lamela, Sterling/need a decent LF and Hernandez/Sturridge.... Plan is to keep improving that in addition to creating and all English and possible all Belgian team.

    Also, international friendlies are just the worst things ever. About as pointless as club friendlies in this day and age.

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    From a fans perspective, I'd totally agree with you... can see the use for the manager.

    Then again, the only England game I ever got to was a friendly, so I can't slam them too much. Was the one after the World Cup against Hungary, when Rooney got in trouble for sarcastically clapping the fans when he was replaced.

  32. #32
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, they definitely have their uses for the manager. For the fans and actually getting an idea of what to expect in a tourney though it's just a chore. I honestly couldn't tell you the last friendly international I watched. We are talking years though.

  33. #33
    Squared
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    To be fair, most of the time even qualifiers don't give you much of an idea of what to expect in a tournament. Obviously when you get a team like Spain, who can dominate over a period of years, then it can give you a clue - but more often than not, the major tournaments are won by teams who just happen to peak at the right time. That was the thing that all the statisticians were warning England about in 2010 - that we may have qualified brilliantly, but more often than not that record doesn't matter at all.

  34. #34
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    True... Plus big time players tend to show up more often in big time matches. Last night being a prime example with Ibra and Ronaldo trying to one-man-team themselves to Brazil and France disappointing the rest of the world by finally doing what they probably should have done for the last 11 or however many matches qualifying way.

  35. #35
    Squared
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    No doubt... cometh the hour, cometh the man, etc etc.

  36. #36
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    No draw thoughts yet. My initial thought looking at it is "there are a lot of shit countries in this world cup and a lot of the better ones have ended up drawn together". That could make for a phenomenal month of footy.

  37. #37
    EJ84
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    Australia drawn with Spain, Netherlands and Chile.

    lol

    Last edited by EJ84; 12-07-2013 at 01:47 AM.

  38. #38
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    Ok, that is so full of win I spat tea all over my keyboard.

  39. #39
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    Playing Terry would probably mean you would have to leave out the man who I think has been the best English defender on form for a long time now, Jagielka. Not sure they could play together.

    Then again, he is definitely in the top 4-5 defenders and should be in consideration on form in his own right, and playing him with Cahill, his club team mate, makes a certain amount of sense. So it might be harsh on Jags but if you think that is what is best for the team then that is what the manager has to go with.

  40. #40
    anonymous
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    I completely agree with that. Jagielka is probably better than Cahill or Terry but, the unit is stronger when Cahill and Terry are together. I'd say that Cole should ever start if those two did but, it's less important. As with all Welshman, I'll be pretending not to support England whilst intently watching their matches and hoping they do reasonably well.

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