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Thread: International Football (World Cup, Euros, Qualifiers, England, Etc.)

  1. #41
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    Take Terry but not starting XI. Chances are we'll get one CB injured during the tournament and Terry would fit in seamlessly. But I'm not counting on him coming out of retirement.

  2. #42
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    Terry's a cunt, but a cunt with a winning mentality and back on form. Starting XI for me. I wouldn't take him otherwise.


  3. #43
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    I feel like I should be taking poison at the end of the post but I agree that Terry should go to the World Cup, watching the Chelsea game Monday night it's hard to see a better English cb pairing than Terry and Cahill, and you know you can rely on Terry to put his body on the line for the cause.

    Meanwhile Rovers have signed a new striker, so it seems that my post yesterday had an effect.

    Out of interest, how long do you think it will be before all of the aging English players e.g. Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc. are linked with Beckham's team in Miami.
    Last edited by Wilkimania; 02-06-2014 at 08:20 AM.

  4. #44
    Linked by the media? Give it 12 hours or so...

  5. #45
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    http://www.theguardian.com/football/...i-new-mls-team

    it started last night..

    I'm half expecting rumours of Rooney ending his career there. In 2017 he'll be just right for a last pay day.

  6. #46
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    Yeah, reckon they will.

    With the season coming to an end, here's who is on the world cup plane if I'm picking as it stands.

    1. Joe Hart (Man City)
    2. Glen Johnson (Liverpool)
    3. Leighton Baines (Everton)
    4. Gary Cahill (Chelsea)
    5. Phil Jagielka (Everton)
    6. Michael Carrick (Man Utd)
    7. Adam Lallana (Southampton)
    8. Steven Gerrard (capt) (L'Pool)
    9. Wayne Rooney (Man Utd)
    10. Daniel Sturridge (L'Pool)
    11. Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
    12. James Milner (Man City)
    13. Fraser Forster (Celtic)
    14. Curtis Davies (Hull)
    15. Gareth Barry/Frank Lampard (Everton/Chelsea)
    16. Jordan Henderson (Liverpool)
    17. Raheem Sterling (Liverpool)
    18. Rickie Lambert (Southampton)
    19. Danny Welbeck/Jay Rodriguez (Man Utd/Southampton)
    20. Kyle Walker (Tottenham)
    21. Luke Shaw/Ashley Cole (Southampton/Chelsea)
    22. Phil Jones (Man Utd)
    23. Ben Foster/Jon Ruddy (WBA/Norwich)

    There's a few places there where there are a couple of people in the frame for a shirt and it's all about what they do before the end of the season. Obviously others could still fall out if someone in their position has a blinder, but barring that I'd be looking to take them if they aren't 'paired' with another player as it stands. If they are paired, the one I'm leaning towards is named first. Less important is the third choice keeper. Most interesting is when I think about it, I'm leaning towards doing a Mourinho and leaving out Ashley Cole for Southampton's LB.... though I don't know if I'd actually go that way when the time came. It's a gamble, and one that looks very difficult to win because you'll get battered whichever way you pick, I think.

    EDIT: Forgot Ross Barkley and the Ox! Not that either of them are definitely in as it stands, mind, but they are in the picture...

  7. #47
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    I look at it this way, assume England get to the semi final, win and Baines picks up a suspension. Who would you rather have come in, Shaw or Cole? No brainer for me. If we were picking a first choice full back for the tourney it would be Shaw hands down right now but as back up it would have to be Rashley.


  8. #48
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    ^ That is actually what's making me hedge on it. Exactly that situation.

    Still, if you pick Cole, he comes in and after not playing for months has a shocker, you are still going to get slaughtered as a manager. Not least because it's Cole, who isn't exactly beloved by the fans to begin with. So unless whoever you pick is a stand-out, it's lose-lose for the manager IMO.

  9. #49
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    I'd be taking Shaw either way, in the situation of a Semi-Final I'm looking at it as do I want a player who's been playing regularly and playing consistently well in Shaw, or a player who's been in and out of the side all season and therefore could take 10-15 minutes to get up to game speed, which isn't something you can rely on in a Semi-Final.

  10. #50
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    I pretty much agree with your squad, although your two names mentioned in the edits would be in there instead of Barry/Lampard and Milner. I'd take Rodriguez over Welbeck easily, Shaw over Cole and Foster over Ruddy. Oh, actually - I'd possibly have Caulker over Davies.

    Starting line-up is hard to pick, for me - I'm not a big fan of the Cahill/Jagielka partnership as I think it's a little bit too slow over the ground and don't have too much going for them in terms of calming ball play. Unfortunately, that's a problem that's rife within the English defenders - too many John Terrys, not enough Rio Ferdinands. I'd like to have someone who could bring the ball out of defence at their feet, and I don't think either of our first choice two can do that well. Similarly, we kind of have the inverse problem in central midfield - lots of people who can pick 40, 50 yard passes, but I wouldn't say any of Gerrard, Henderson, Carrick or Wilshere are great ball winners. Don't get me wrong, they're willing to do the dirty stuff, but none of them are a classic midfield stopper. Carrick's possibly the most defensively minded of the four, and he's not exactly great at it. At least in the front four we've got plenty of options - I think I said on Twitter before, but I'd be willing to start the World Cup with a front four of Rodriguez, Rooney, Lallana; Lambert (although I expect Lambert will fall by the wayside for Sturridge, and rightly so on form) - stylish, attractive, and full of goals. If any of those players weren't going to make it, I'd be hooking out Rooney and replacing him with one of Sterling, Barkley or The Ox, maybe putting them on the wing and moving Lallana inside.

    It's not necessarily the strongest side we'll ever have taken to the World Cup, but it's got a balance of youth and experience, as well as pragmatism and flamboyance, that should see us do OK, and at least lay some foundations for the future.

  11. #51
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    I'm not sure I'd take the Ox over Milner, because the latter's versatility could be hugely important in a tournament like this. Someone who can play LW, RW, AM, CM, DM, or RB is going to be an asset. Ox is versatile too, but for me the man he'd probably be looking to unseat is Sterling.

    If we were picking an 11 on nothing but club form, Barry should be in the team, never mind the squad. He's also the best at winning the ball we've got who can actually still play a bit. If we were going with experience first, you take Lampard. But I can see both being left out for Barkley, whose rep continues to grow.

    I'm less sold on Rodriguez than you, and certainly would have him behind Lambert in the pecking order of So'ton guys... but it wasn't that long ago I was fairly sure I wouldn't have given him a look-in, so to make this list shows he is already winning me over. Carry on as he has been, end the season in good form, and he'll almost certainly have completely unseated Welbeck in my thinking.


    I'd probably have Foster over Ruddy, too. But nah, looking at post-Malky form Caulker's fallen away for me. Curtis should have a reasonable claim to a spot in the XI. Not saying that he will, because he plays for Hull, but he's been about as good as Cahill and Jags this season and better than the Dawson's of the world.

  12. #52
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    Also how the hell can anyone justify charging 90 for the new England shirts? I haven't bought an England shirt since '04 anyway, but was considering one for this summer but it looks like I'll have to return to my search for the grey Euro 96 one.

  13. #53
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    So... Puncheon for England? He has been in my fantasy football team since he missed that penalty and he's dragging me closer and closer to top after sitting in mid table all year.


  14. #54
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    Should he go? Probably. Will he go? Probably not.

  15. #55
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    Puncheon is playing out of his skin as of late. Move over Saurez, there's a new PoTY in town.


  16. #56
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    One of the main reasons he'll get overlooked is that we'll go thinking that England aren't going to play like a Pulis side.

    Then, of course, we'll get out there and it'll become apparent that we'd probably have more luck playing like a Pulis side....

  17. #57
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    Not for me Puncheon. Not that the guys doesn't have talent, but there are too many ahead of him in my book. Same with Adam Johnson. Had a good 2/3 months, been peripheral ever since. Too many guys ahead that may not have been as good in that spell, but are better over most the season.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gooner View Post
    Not for me Puncheon. Not that the guys doesn't have talent, but there are too many ahead of him in my book. Same with Adam Johnson. Had a good 2/3 months, been peripheral ever since. Too many guys ahead that may not have been as good in that spell, but are better over most the season.
    Out of interest who do you have ahead of him?

  19. #59
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    I'd still have Lallana over him. Probably Henderson too, even though his shitty tackle has blotted his copy book lately. The 'form guy' more likely to get in at the moment would be Sterling, I reckon.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I'd still have Lallana over him. Probably Henderson too, even though his shitty tackle has blotted his copy book lately. The 'form guy' more likely to get in at the moment would be Sterling, I reckon.
    Henderson is a Cm though isn't he?

  21. #61
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    Often, but I've seen do a job in AM/LM/RM positions enough times. That alone will count in his favour.

  22. #62
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    So what England squad are we settling with?

    Here's mine -

    GK; Hart, Foster, Forster

    DEF; Baines, Cahill, Jags, Jones, Smalling, Johnson, Walker, Shaw
    MID; Carrick, Barry, Gerrard, Lallana, Henderson, Wilshire, Ox, Sterling
    FW; Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Lambert.


  23. #63
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    I'd love to see this sort of squad:

    Keepers
    Hart, Forster, Ruddy

    Defenders
    Johnson, Cahill, Jagielka, Shaw, Flanagan, Phil Jones, Smalling, Baines

    Midfielders
    Henderson, Gerrard, Lallana, Sterling, Barkley, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Huddlestone (huge fan, I think he's the kind of player who can come on and unlock a defence with his passing, hence his inclusion. I'd even be tempted to start him) and Wilshere,

    Strikers
    Sturridge, Rooney, Welbeck, Lambert


    My first eleven would look like this:

    Hart

    Johnson Cahill Jagielka Shaw

    Henderson Gerrard

    Lallana Barkley Sterling

    Sturridge


    And I would tell them to attack, attack again, and attack some more. Fuck it, we're not going to win it, so I'd rather see us play with some pace and be bold than the usual shite of tentative, slow paced build up because everyone's too scared to make a mistake, and it would be great to see a few youngsters get some experience of a big tournament early in their careers.
    Last edited by Freeman; 05-01-2014 at 01:34 PM.

  24. #64
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    Right now...

    GK; Hart, Foster, Forster

    DEF; Baines, Cahill, Jagielka, Jones, Lescott, Johnson, Flanagan, Cole

    MID; Lampard, Barkley, Gerrard, Lallana, Milner, Wilshere, Ox, Sterling

    FW; Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Lambert.

    Of those, the only I take as "baggage" is Lescott, purely because I just do not rate Smalling and Lescott is the next best.

    Standby players:

    Ruddy, Smalling, Shaw, Henderson, Carroll, Huddlestone, Dawson

    Starting XI:

    Hart

    Johnson, Cahill, Jagielka, Cole
    Gerrard, Wilshere
    Lallana, Rooney, Sterling,
    Sturridge

  25. #65
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    Didn't Foster say that the only way he'd play for England again was if he was first choice?

  26. #66
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    GK: Hart, Forster, Foster
    DEF: Cahill, Jagielka, Jones, Caulker, Johnson, Baines, Walker, Shaw
    MID: Gerrard, Henderson, Barkley, Wilshere, Lallana, Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Milner
    FW: Rooney, Sturridge, Welbeck, Lambert

    As much as I'd like to bring Cole and Lampard, we should blood our youngsters and build for the future. The Golden Generation had its chance.

    Hart
    Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines
    Henderson Gerrard
    Lallana Rooney Sterling
    Sturridge

  27. #67
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    Ashley Cole has been told he isn't going to the World Cup, and has retired from International football.

    Great servant for England. Never the most beloved of players but one of the most consistent performers of the Golden generation.

    I, for one, would probably have gone with the two guys who were playing regularly, so I'm going to do my level best not to get drawn into being overly critical of Woy if this decision backfires. It's certainly a pretty positive decision, rather than a safety first one.

  28. #68
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    Progressive squad from Woy. Let's see if he can go full steam ahead and play the young Lions. Given the squad that's went, here's the team I would like to see lining out -

    GK: Hart

    RB: Jones
    CB: Cahill
    CB: Jags
    LB: Baines

    CM: Gerrard
    CM: Wilshire
    CM: Barkley

    FW: Sterling
    FW: Rooney
    FW: Sturridge

    In saying that, I wouldn't be opposed to Llalana starting ahead of any one on that team.


  29. #69
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    Is it not fully announced at 2pm?

    I still don't like Cahill and Jagielka as a centreback partnership. They're probably the best two we've got, but I don't trust them all that much. Cahill's been a revelation this season in my opinion, though, so maybe it's more Jagielka that I have concerns about. I'll be surprised if Jones starts ahead of Johnson at right back.

    I think Roy's biggest question is what he does with the midfield and forward line - does he go with a 3-3, a 2-3-1, or a 4-2 configuration. A 4-2 with Rooney and Sturridge up front leaves questions over who plays wide, because there aren't really any wide midfielders that would be in most peoples preferred line-ups - Sterling, Ox, Lallana etc don't really play that deep normally, so a 4-2 might be putting round pegs in square holes. A 3-3 is interesting, and would likely be a natural fit with a lot of the players likely to be in the squad - a dynamic front three with a flexible midfield three behind them - but then I look at Roy and think 'that's too adventurous for him'. Has he got the stones to go as attacking as a 4-3-3 suggests on paper? I'd expect us to go 2-3-1 for that reason, with Wilshire and Gerrard playing deep, then Sterling-Rooney-Ox behind Sturridge. It's quite fluid at the front, but those two guys playing deep give extra protection to the defence. Unfortunately, that means no place for Barkley or Lallana, two guys who I'd like to see given a chance, but they'll get time off the bench - both will have the ability to hurt tiring defences.

    EDIT: I'm sitting waiting for news on Big Sam today - rumours have it we're offering Allegri the job if we show him the door.

  30. #70
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    What occurs to me, is that if you take Rooney, Barkley, and Sturridge, then if Sturridge fails to make too much of an impact at the top level you can push Rooney forward, and play Barkley in the hole. Of course, if Rooney goes off the boil, there's also a ready made replacement.

    I think Sterling almost has to play, but I'd be tempted to put Lallana in ahead of Ox, based on the season just gone.

    Just out of curiosity, if you don't trust Jagielka, who do you play ahead of him (assuming that you are limited to those who might actually play, so no Ferdinand or Terry)? Curtis Davies, Michael Dawson, Steven Caulker, James Tomkins? What about Shawcross, Stones, or Turner? We've got a lot of options at centre half now, but I think we're probably still weaker there than we have been since I've been a fan of the game.

  31. #71
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    I'm going from twitter reports, Prime, almost sure the entire squads been leaked.

    And you're right about the centre halves being weaker now than I can ever remember. From Adams/Keown/Pallister through to Campbell/Southgate into Ferdinand and Terry, with your Woodgates and King's in between. England have traditionally had a centre half who was from the top echelon of defenders in the world.


  32. #72
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    Oh, ok. I've not seen it yet, and probably don't have time to track it down now - off teaching in a minute.

    Will comment a bit later in the day and give some thoughts.

  33. #73
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    Two players who have played for Rovers in that squad in Forster and Lambert. In fact I argue us losing and failing to replace the two of them is a large part of what led to us being relegated from League 1. We played Norwich and Saints back to back that year, next year we could be playing Salisbury and Hereford back to back.

    So what summer business does everyone think their clubs will be doing? And when will it be done?

  34. #74
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    Not got much to say on the squad really. No glaring omissions but a pretty weak one still. Midfield is the key for me. If the potential of a lot of these midfielders can be unleashed, and they can click together, we might pull off a couple of shocks. If not it could be embarrassing. If I was Woy, I'd be looking to use Liverpool's base for this season as my attacking unit.


  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    If I was Woy, I'd be looking to use Liverpool's base for this season as my attacking unit.

    Looking at what I say above, I'd guess we'd largely be in agreement then.



    There are two real causes for optimism I can pick out. First, anyone likely to be playing with Rooney is going to be the type of player who, tactically, could give us the best chance of getting the exciting talent from Euro 2004 on the field. The other is that in Barkley, if Rooney isn't doing so well we've actually got someone who can do the same job ready to come on and make a name for himself.

  36. #76
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    Essentially. I would probably start with your 4231 - It doesn't feel right though. I am sure something will come up sooner rather than later. Man I love the World Cup!


  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Just out of curiosity, if you don't trust Jagielka, who do you play ahead of him (assuming that you are limited to those who might actually play, so no Ferdinand or Terry)? Curtis Davies, Michael Dawson, Steven Caulker, James Tomkins? What about Shawcross, Stones, or Turner? We've got a lot of options at centre half now, but I think we're probably still weaker there than we have been since I've been a fan of the game.
    In truth, I think that's the problem - there isn't an alternative to Jagielka, not one that's proven at a good level of play at least. If Roy could have got Terry back he'd walk into the side, which is probably the most damning fact about the quality of the centrebacks that Roy has a choice of. I definitely wouldn't think Smalling or Jones could be a permanent fixture their right now. Davies, Caulker, Tomkins, Shawcross etc aren't really playing at a level which lets them stake a claim for international football. Stones will probably be established in the squad by 2016, possibly even first team, but his run of form has likely come too late for this time round.

    I agree, I think it's probably our weakest area on paper, and that's pretty rare for us.

  38. #78
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    The pessimist in me sees us going out in the groups. The optimist says quarters. But I think the realist and the pessimist aren't too far apart...

  39. #79
    @TRSOTP @MazzaLOP Mazza's Avatar
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    Right... I need to buy a football shirt but don't which to get... pros and cons across the board.

    England... problem is as Spurs hater and a mucky bastard, I can't wear white. I quite like the away kit but I don't wanna be that brown dude who looks like a UKIP supporter!

    Holland... Normally my team in tourneys and I just love the orange. On the flip I think this is the worst Dutch team I have seen in my lifetime and no Arsenal connections.

    France... I did the dirty in 98 supporting them all the way. 3 Gooners in the squad (knowing Wenger at least 2 more come August) and they screwed over Nasri but even still it is really hard to get behind anything French.

    Argentina... Always a favourite team to watch and I've never dabbled in their merch before... but I also don't want to get randomly attacked walking around in it.

    Germany... as much as I love the team, a combination of my England and Argie issues remain.

    Brazil... wearing a Brazil top during the world cup is a pretty twatty thing to do (even though I wear a Brazil jacket on the regs). I'd probably have to even the trendy side out by throwing Thiago Silva's name on the back or something.

    Spain... would be even more twatty that Brazil. I like the kit and the team but it would make me look like that guy that has supported Man City since 2012 (or even last week).

    Italy... Nah....

    Uruguay/Belgium... One of these two are going to go a long way, I'm sure... but is it worth the risk to look like a smart arse?

    Any other country would pretty much be bordering on hipster territory which I am not adverse to going with but none are jumping out at me as worth it for either footballing or "nice kit" reasons...

    The Dutch are faves right now but I am open to persuasion...


  40. #80
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    Portugal jersey, Maz, with Ronaldo on the back...


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