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Thread: Braun Strowman

  1. #81
    I beat up Kong! Powder's Avatar
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    With Barry Darsow, iand the Ravishing One

  2. #82
    The Brain
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    I think there's something to be said for both routes, but I do agree that it's not bad to have someone coming up the old school way. I've long thought WWE should experiment more with pushing people out of the gate, as they haven't TRULY gotten behind a genuinely fresh rookie talent since Lesnar, probably because of how the way that ended the first time.

  3. #83
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    See, I think that the Performance Centre is great, but it's not where you learn the business.

    Because the business is long drives when you're having trouble holding open your eyes but still have an hour to go, and trying to keep up your diet on gas station or fast food, and trying to find a gym in a town you don't know. It's staying up all night partying because you're too stupid to realize that future hung over you is going to hate dragging yourself out of bed at 8 a.m. to do a four hour drive and wrestle again.

    Last week on Prichard's podcast, they told the story of Jericho's Undisputed Title win and how he won the belt but when he got to the back most of the boys were gone, so he showered and wen't back to his hotel where room service had just ended. So he ordered a pizza but had to go to the lobby to get it and got locked out of his room and it was a whole fiasco to get it reopened and at the end of the night he wound up eating cold pizza in a random hotel room. THAT shit is wrestling and it's a side of wrestling that you have to be mentally ready for that the PC doesn't teach and that Braun could not have learned working with all of the talented people at the PC.

    Vince was smart with Braun. Put him on the road immediately and let him learn there with vets. Because how many promising prospects have they had over the years that had the look and could maybe wrestle and could have been stars but cracked under the lifestyle within their first few months on the road?

    The indy guys know to expect this, but it used to be that you were taught what you needed to know and tossed into it to see if you were tough enough for the business. You didn't have a decade of working weekends or cobbling together bookings before doing 100 days on the road.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    I've seen various people say that Braun is green, or too green.

    I'm interested to ask, if anybody feels like that, where does it come from? Is there a specific match that indicates his greenness from the last 12 months? Because the only one I can think people are talking of is the Lesnar match, and even that told a pretty good story and Braun looked good in, for me. I also thought he looked excellent on Sunday night.

  5. #85
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    I thought he was pretty clearly the best guy in the match. Lesnar can still throw a mean shoot punch, but Braun was the guy driving that match 100% and almost everything good besides that punch came directly from him.

  6. #86
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    Really digging this Braun/Bliss combo. Saw the post match interview after their match and the crowd lapped it up.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I've seen various people say that Braun is green, or too green.

    I'm interested to ask, if anybody feels like that, where does it come from? Is there a specific match that indicates his greenness from the last 12 months? Because the only one I can think people are talking of is the Lesnar match, and even that told a pretty good story and Braun looked good in, for me. I also thought he looked excellent on Sunday night.
    The Lesnar match. Brock certainly didn't hold up his end of the bargain in that match but a lot of the problems were Strowman. I thought there were several moments where he got lost in the match and several moments of downtime where he just didn't really do anything at all; frankly every time he hit a move on Brock he just seemed to stand there, staring at him while he got up instead of trying to get the crowd involved. Again, not all his fault, but I thought it exposed him mightily.

    And really, you have to think about it; what do all the great Braun Strowman moments during the year have in common? They're all ridiculously over the top. Braun at his best is a guy flipping automobiles, shoving Reigns down platforms, screaming over the top catchphrases and being in car crash multi-man matches. There's nothing wrong with that; whatever works, works. But they put him in those for a reason and that reason became apparent in that Lesnar match; in a normal type of match up, Braun comes and goes and when it's gone, it's really gone. It's why WWE immediately moved him back into demolition derby's afterwards, why no one had any interest in the Kane feud when they did that (Braun also needs someone good to compliment him, and Kane wasn't that guy) and why most people walked away from Sunday's match disappointed, because it wasn't the Braun style car crash everyone loves from him. I haven't seen that match myself (and probably won't) and mizfan is probably right in saying Braun was the best part of the shindig, but that's not a ringing endorsement for me when the other two participants were an over the hill Kane and an uninterested Brock Lesnar. Just because the Edmonton Oilers are better than the Buffalo Sabres and Arizona Coyotes doesn't make them good; it just makes them a little less bad than the others.

    In any event, I would still strike while the iron is hot with Braun despite his shortcomings, both because he is so hot and because at some point, you guys are going to get sick of him doing the same thing over and over again. And that's going to be a problem, because at that point he'll have to be something other than an over the top comic book monster, and I'm not sure he can be that from what I've seen.


  8. #88
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    The Lesnar match. Brock certainly didn't hold up his end of the bargain in that match but a lot of the problems were Strowman. I thought there were several moments where he got lost in the match and several moments of downtime where he just didn't really do anything at all; frankly every time he hit a move on Brock he just seemed to stand there, staring at him while he got up instead of trying to get the crowd involved. Again, not all his fault, but I thought it exposed him mightily.
    The thing I liked about that match was Braun selling Lesnar's German as they progressively did more damage to him as the match went on. I know it's not a long match or anything, but after the first one he rolled through and got up straight away. As the match went on and he got hit by more than them it took him longer and longer to get up. I liked that.

    As for matches, I don't know. I think he and Reigns have been pretty special in the ring time and time again. I think the fact he delivered a trilogy of good stuff with Big Show, of all people, says quite a lot.

    And yeah, you know, if his Mania match doesn't end with him basically flipping the stadium over it is going to be a little disappointing. But those big moments aren't necessarily overshadowing his ring work, for me, which I think is certainly as good a work by a big man we've seen since...actually, I don't know what name to put there. Bam Bam was the first that came to mind, or Vader. That sounds too hyperbolic, though.

  9. #89
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    You would be an extreme minority if you think that (aside from Reddit's Braun fan club). The dominant view, including mine, is that Braun is super green, his shortcomings are obvious. He only comes off well in one type of carefully controlled and choreographed match: spectacular car crashes, and with the right opponent. Outside of that, he gets exposed immediately. There is a reason why they put him in as many gimmick matches as possible, and why they are usually kept short outside of PPV main events. Like a couple minutes at the most, such as his match with Kane the other day. He doesn't know to work a proper match yet, as the Lesnar match showed. It wasn't even Lesnar phoning it in. It was just a regular match, without the gimmicks/spot, in the ring, and that ended up severely hampering it, because Braun doesn't know how to do that yet. In other words, he doesn't know how to work yet, and can only be carried to something watchable or good, in one type of scenario with select people.

    The idea that he's in any way comparable to Bam Bam or Vader is a galactic stretch.

  10. #90
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    So just realised that his and Bliss' charity they are competing for in the MMC is Conor's Cure. I mean, if they end up winning I'm going to hate this concept even more. That's not a dig at the charity don't get me wrong but at the whole concept behind this tournament.

  11. #91
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    I haven't seen anything to make me think he's green, but my viewing is very limited (didn't see the Lesnar match, for instance). But honestly, if he's hot and good at doing crazy over the top matches, then just do that. Steve Austin was in no shape to wrestle traditional matches with his shattered neck, so his matches became about brawling. Play to the man's strengths and you can still strike while the iron is hot, if it even is hot anymore.

  12. #92
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    I mean he is green as goose-shit as the old saying goes, but Mizfan has hit the nail on the head. The truth is that if you're protecting someone properly then it shouldn't be something you actually notice. Ultimate Warrior got away with it for years. There's no real reason to ever book him in a way that exposes him. If people start getting sick of what he is doing take him off TV for a bit. There's no reason that you have to work every week, either. If you're holding a belt you only need appear once every 30 days to defend it. If you're not on a title you can just suffer 'an injury in training' and let the character rest. While people still want to see it - and I get the impression that they still do - then do it. Hey, worked for Goldberg, and they didn't have the luxury of taking him off TV.

    But yeah, the thing is that they've done a pretty good job of protecting Strowman but every so often it does become more obvious that he's only a couple of years into the career. Though I'm of the opinion that it's better that he's learned to work like a big man. You're not going to become Steamboat overnight but look at what he's already become from progressing the way he has.



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  13. #93
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    Why can’t he be punt into a program with Seth Rollins or even Samoa Joe when he returns? Let Strowman tour the house show circuit wrestling those guys night in, night out, to work on his in ring matches.

    That is how he wil improve. Also pair him up with Curtis Axel for traveling so he can help him. They can train together. Axel is the go to guys for getting guys back in shape, so why not use him as a training partner?

  14. #94
    Neither I nor Allystare said you shouldn't strike now; hell I said you should strike now! We're just saying when you take away the car crash nature of his matches or a guy like Roman Reigns to make him look good, the guy is still very green. Which he is. Still doesn't mean, like mizfan said, that they shouldn't roll with what they've got now, especially since there's only a limited amount of time I imagine Braun will be this over.


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    I wouldn't be opposed to rolling with it now (in fact, it would be preferable to Reigns/Lesnar), but I do remain cognizant that he has limitations. He is still very early in his career, young enough, that there's plenty of room and time for improvement. He is like 3 years or less into the business, IIRC, though I could be wrong.

  16. #96
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    I still think that there's a ton of untapped potential with Braun. He's my favourite wrestler in North America right now. But, like PT said, why have him on TV every week? Hogan didn't appear on every episode of Superstars, and when he worked the rare free TV match that goddamn meant something.

    Braun might not be Okada between the ropes, but I genuinely don't think that he needs to be. He has the charisma and a shocking ability to make the 80s yelling promo feel new. Braun is a throwback.

    He could be your Ultimate Warrior or Lex Luger or any of those guys (although he's far better in the ring than any of them already), but he needs the right booking. Just like anyone else.

    Nakamura should be shouting a few words into the microphone and kneeing guys heads into the fifth row, he shouldn't be cutting 2005 opening show monologues. Finn Balor should be doing a too cool for school Kliq impression and putting on the war paint for big matches, not working borderline supernatural angles with Bray Wyatt. Elias should be the thing that I look most forward to each week on Raw, not anything else ever.

    Book guys to their strengths. Let Braun do his feats of strength every once in a while. Let him ragdoll local guys, even if he's WWE Champion. Let him shout into a mic and come up with these stupid, seemingly random t-shirt worthy catchphrases ("That's what I did!"). Shit, if you put the belt on the big bastard let him beat people. There's never any shame in losing to the Champion. Let Finn and Seth bump around him and take stupid bumps into him, let he and Joe stiff one another for eight minutes, let he and Roman have smoke and mirrors matches.

    I'm a firm believer that the main event doesn't need to be 30 minutes or the best wrestled match on the card, as long as people get something on the card that's sound on the wrestling end and whatever you're doing with it is over.

    Hell, we haven't even wandered into Braun working like a babyface Hogan territory and selling for guys yet. That would open up a whole new set of interesting possibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allystare View Post
    I wouldn't be opposed to rolling with it now (in fact, it would be preferable to Reigns/Lesnar), but I do remain cognizant that he has limitations. He is still very early in his career, young enough, that there's plenty of room and time for improvement. He is like 3 years or less into the business, IIRC, though I could be wrong.
    Like I said above, there's something to be said for him winning the IC title and building toward him being the top guy. Austin did it when he caught fire huge.

    Plus, guys like Miz, Roman and Braun fighting over the IC title only makes that belt look way more important and higher up the card so that when Elias wins it he looks more important.
    Last edited by Team Farrell; 01-31-2018 at 05:57 PM.

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    Ironically, I think the NJPW system would be more receptive to someone like Braun in certain ways (not all ways). In NJPW, guys wrestle different styles, whereas in the WWE they have conditioned their fans to expect the same 20 minute+ finisher-kickout spam-fest from all the main eventers, and *even* the mid card guys. It's the exact same pattern. Every. Single. Time. So in the WWE system, someone like Braun risks being exposed because he can't conform to the same 1-style-for-all standard. Now's a good time as any to move away from that model, and reeducate their fanbase towards different styles and match types.

  18. #98
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    Funny enough, I feel like New Japan's house style is even more set in stone than WWE's in many ways. Instead of 20 minutes, they usually require 30, and the first half is required to be slow paced technical wrestling which will not have any effect on the rest of the match. I may lose my "indy cred" with this, but there's a real possibility I'd rather watch Braun than Okada, and I like both guys a lot.

    One of my favorite things about going back to peak WCW is the true variety. You get a lucha match, then some European catch style, then a guest match from Japan, then a garbage brawl, then a throwback NWA style match, and (let's be honest) something very WWF-esque in the main event. Literally something for everyone, when they were doing it right at least.

  19. #99
    Broken Kleck Kleckamania's Avatar
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    I'm not gonna lie, Braun Strowman probably should be our president right now.

  20. #100
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    I'm alright with any Braun match that involves a bunch of plunder if it means Braun does ridiculous things in it.

    Jeez, have him throw a 205Live guy into the third row from the ring or something. Or better yet Finn Balor. Have him hurl Finn Balor out of the stadium at Mania.

    I see some people saying that the whole thing with him is that it's unbelievable for him to flip ambulances, stages, trucks etc and then not, like, punch a dude and send him into a different state. Which seems to ignore the whole fun of it, to me. Just sit back and enjoy him doing what he does. I'm cool with the smoke and mirrors stuff being there, but Strowman and Show did at least one great Hosspocalypse match without any gimmick around it last year so the idea he's so green he needs a load of covering up just doesn't work for me.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I see some people saying that the whole thing with him is that it's unbelievable for him to flip ambulances, stages, trucks etc and then not, like, punch a dude and send him into a different state. Which seems to ignore the whole fun of it, to me. Just sit back and enjoy him doing what he does. I'm cool with the smoke and mirrors stuff being there, but Strowman and Show did at least one great Hosspocalypse match without any gimmick around it last year so the idea he's so green he needs a load of covering up just doesn't work for me.
    The thing is, it's not unbelievable. Braun comes from strong man where the do this:



    Now, before anyone says anything, yes it's not an ambulance or a tractor trailer and the engine's been taken out of those and all that stuff, but still. The visual is still there.

    Hell, Big Show did this in front of a live audience:



    I'm pretty sure that stage flip was a shoot. It didn't look like there were wires or lifts or anything.

    EDIT: Then there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_91Q5y7ZCIg which I believe is literally a form of medieval execution turned strength event.
    Last edited by Team Farrell; 02-01-2018 at 01:04 PM.

  22. #102
    That's cause the Big Show, when put in something interesting, is super good, especially in hoss matches. It wasn't that long ago he and Mark Henry had a serious of fun hoss battles before Daniel Bryan swooped in as the most entertaining heel in history. Did Braun carry his end? Absolutely. But having singles matches with the Big Show or Roman Reigns, who for all his flaws is actually a really good worker at the end of the day, doesn't mean he isn't lacking in other areas. Why else would WWE be putting him in so many multi-man matches, car crash matches, over the top backstage segments (which, for the record, no one has a problem with. If LU can have time travelers, dragons and the works, Braun Strowman can certainly flip over an ambulance or two) and short matches? It's because he's going to work best in those and because he's not going to get exposed like he did in the Brock matches. The fact that you haven't noticed it Oli shows what WWE's doing, to this point, is working, which they should be commended for.


  23. #103
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    I don't have a huge problem with some of the strength stuff, but I always think if you are going to get thrown around, off stages and into the crowd, or flipped over in a car or whatever, that it needs to have consequences. If the victim doesn't go home for a couple of weeks I'm left thinking 'why the hell did I watch this?'

    Basically, when guys like Strowman are presented properly you aren't just impressed by them, you are left feeling for the career of any poor shlub unfortunate enough to get on the wrong side of them.



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  24. #104
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    I would think if Strowman is presented properly, you'd be very impressed by him? I am, from what I have seen at least. I do agree big spots should have big consequences though.

  25. #105
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    Angle tried to fire him and can't cause Steph just brings him back lol. My issue with that though is most times, it doesn't even make sense to think what he did was wrong. He has a last man standing match with Kane, he puts the announce set onto Kane and Angle acts like he didn't even book the match in the first place. The worst thing Braun ever did was almost kayfabe kill Reigns by flipping an ambulance. Then Reigns tries to kill Strowman. In none of that, Angle did nothing.. but now because they needed to force some drama for tv, they act like anything Braun does is warrent for getting fired or suspended.

  26. #106
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    Yeah, I guess so. I mean, when I'm watching I try not to think about being impressed. Y'know, I'm old-school, so I like to be worked when I'm watching. I think it's the only way to really enjoy wrestling the way it's supposed to be enjoyed (and, I know, I know, fewer and fewer people agree with me on that, but screw it, I'll think I'm right about it even if I'm the last person alive and the rest of you are outside my house with torches and pitchforks).

    But Braun already has that kind of 'it' factor - even presented badly there's a frisson of something extra when he shows up. If you did add those consequences, like the idea that he could make people go away for a long time... I mean, then you'd have something way more important than whether or not he could work like a Ricky Steamboat. I already enjoy what he does, green or not.



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  27. #107
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    I think you can be impressed even if you're not "thinking" about it, right? Like, when I was rewatching the Hogan/Andre angle and really, finally got into it, when Hogan finally slammed the big guy I would say I was "impressed" in the moment, even though I knew it was coming and know a million cheeky backstage details surrounding the moment. It's supposed to make an impression, right? Or are I misunderstanding your terminology again?

  28. #108
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    No, I'm probably being over picky. I was trying to draw a distinction between being impressed in a knowing and a kayfabe sense, but I guess it is still being impressed: by the power, the presence, or whatever. Fair point.



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  29. #109
    Broken Kleck Kleckamania's Avatar
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    Maybe it's because I'm old school myself, but I think Prime is on the money.

    A great movie can be reduced to just good if the dialogue is off- the details can make a big difference. They have a massive freaking roster- the largest ever. It would be effortless to write a higher tier guy out for a few months on a vaca in exchange to make Braun look ridiculous, and they could plug in one of a bajillion guys to pick up the slack. And rinse and repeat. They have the tools to ratchet Braun up to legend status if they truly wanted to. And I think they should. He plain and simply has the IT factor. If I were Vince I'd let him be a fucking viking God and make a fortune off merchendising like he did Hulk, Stone Cold, Rock, and Cena. He's on that level of popularity if they book him right for 3-5 years.

  30. #110
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    I just finished my Elimination Chamber preview and even though it seems Reigns is destined to take the spot opposite Lesnar at Mania, Braun actually has a pretty compelling story if wwe decided to go with him instead. He has essentially been beaten but not bested since he faced Brock at Summer Slam. I would personally love to see Rollins unintentionally cost Reigns and for Braun to be the one to take down Lesnar at Mania.

  31. #111
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Sam, I'd be super into that whole thing. Braun vs Brock with Braun finally coming out on top is where I'd be taking Mania this year if I had my way. The way the Rumble match ended set that up quite nicely too. Just a shame they did the whole No Mercy thing last year - hindsight is 20:20 and all that, but if they'd done a double count out due to HOSSING in that match I don't think anybody would have blinked an eye and now they could be running with the 'Brock can't beat Braun' angle into Mania. Braun being the only guy on the roster Brock fears.

    Then make the match last man standing or no DQ or whatever to build off the fact that 'the ring couldn't contain them' and so on. So you get to do Brock vs Braun II, get to do a Braun Mania Moment when he drops a tank, or a titantron, or the moon, on Brock, and then come out of Mania with Braun on top. You run with Braun for six months to Summerslam, see how it's going, then work out if you need to flip the script.

    Like, Roman isn't going to gain jack shit from beating Brock this year. You can paint it as the only hurdle he hasn't leapt over or whatever, but is it really going to enhance his CV at this point? Is any fan, diehard or casual, going to end Mania looking at Roman on top after beating Brock, and say 'well, I wasn't sure if he was big, powerful, and handsome before, but now my mind is made up'? Hard no. But put Braun in that spot, let Braun close Mania on top, and bam, WWE have elevated a guy and will have people believing in him more than before. Seriously, if WWE haven't caught onto that yet they're more deaf and blind than I'd have ever thought.

    Literally the only issue with it is that No Mercy match. It bugs the crap out of me that they booked that the way they did, and while I know the reason for it is Because Roman they could have done something, anything, to protect Braun in defeat. Joe looked great just a month or two before despite taking the loss because he was all over Brock from the moment they hit the ring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    Maybe it's because I'm old school myself, but I think Prime is on the money.

    A great movie can be reduced to just good if the dialogue is off- the details can make a big difference. They have a massive freaking roster- the largest ever. It would be effortless to write a higher tier guy out for a few months on a vaca in exchange to make Braun look ridiculous, and they could plug in one of a bajillion guys to pick up the slack. And rinse and repeat. They have the tools to ratchet Braun up to legend status if they truly wanted to. And I think they should. He plain and simply has the IT factor. If I were Vince I'd let him be a fucking viking God and make a fortune off merchendising like he did Hulk, Stone Cold, Rock, and Cena. He's on that level of popularity if they book him right for 3-5 years.
    Is this kind of what they've done with Kane? I appreciate there's the whole question of when Kane will return given he 'sat up in his hospital bed and crawled away', but he's not been back since Braun flipped a stage on him.

  32. #112
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    Kinda too little, too late for my money. You've got to be reasonably consistent with it, and they blew it in the Roman stuff.



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  33. #113
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    Nothing that happened in the last 2 Braun-Brock matches makes one want to see a rematch. Their interaction in the Fatal 4 way was fantastic though.

  34. #114
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Really? I thought their interactions in the Triple Threat were terrific fun.

    Same as with the fourway match, I suppose - let them use some plunder and it covers up various ills.

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