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Thread: The Final Frontier - Star Trek Thread

  1. #81
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    It does, and by the end they are much more rounded characters. But truth be told they are never as interesting as 3-4 of the men, or some of the women in the later series.

    Some of the stuff with Troi's mother gives her something to do, and Crusher gets more to do in season three.

    How far into season one are you?



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  2. #82
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    Not to interrupt but sweet JESUS, the ending to DSC's latest episode!!!

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    It does, and by the end they are much more rounded characters. But truth be told they are never as interesting as 3-4 of the men, or some of the women in the later series.

    Some of the stuff with Troi's mother gives her something to do, and Crusher gets more to do in season three.

    How far into season one are you?
    Almost done with it, about 10 episodes left. Their have been some bright spots along the way, but at the same time it doesn't feel like a polished product. I'm defiently looking forward to better days when the characters are developed more.

  4. #84
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    As Prime said, it's well worth pushing through to the season 3 finale. There's good reason that's considered one of the best episodes of Trek ever!

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    Almost done with it, about 10 episodes left. Their have been some bright spots along the way, but at the same time it doesn't feel like a polished product. I'm defiently looking forward to better days when the characters are developed more.
    OK, if you are nearly there stick with it. Roddenberry was very much still in control at that point, when he starts to lose ground to Rick Berman and the rest you get a product that doesn't feel like an inferior version of the original series but has a more polished idea of its own identity.

    You'll notice a change in series 2, but the premiere of three just feels so different. It's like someone has flipped a switch and all the lights have come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Plan View Post
    Despite having only watched through DS9 a year or so ago, I can't remember that at all, having quickly looked it up on Memory Alpha! But then the Ferengi episodes never did much for me anyway. I get the impression the creators considered them to be much funnier than I ever did.
    I meant to come back to this earlier. I think it can be a mistake to think about the Ferengi episodes as comedy, although they obviously do play them for laughs more than other characters, particularly Rom and the Nagus. But that can sucker you in, and really I think they explore the Ferengi in the same kind of depth they go into the Klingons, and beneath the silliness that is on the surface there's some really good thinking about culture clashes in their presentation, and some stuff about tradition and individualism colliding. So my advice to get more out of them would be to watch them again but try and take them more seriously as a species and see if that gets you anywhere. The thing to remember is that although they can be silly, a lot of them, like Quark and the Nagus, have quite clearly defined vicious streaks.

    Though the Ferengi are the main plot in that episode, I was actually thinking as much about the subplot, with Bashir and the Carrington award. It's not a huge thing by any stretch but if you're into more understated stories it's really well told.



    Just done with season three now. Some real plus points in there. 'Fascination' is the best in the recurring 'crew in love with each other' trope of episodes, way better then the TOS and TNG versions. The House of Quark, Equilibrium and Second Skin are three really strong 'concept' episodes early on in the season and work well. Civil Defence does jeopardy better than most and is really very memorable, and well plotted.

    Near the end of the series, you've got Improbable Cause and The Die is Cast, which is really a two-parter in the tradition of The Best of Both Worlds but without the shared title, and it's excellent. Really moving, in it's own way. Then Family Business is another strong Ferengi episode in this season (though a bit more sugary than Prophet Motive), and Facets follows on where Equilibrium left off as a really strong exploration of the Trill and the various hosts of Dax.

    But honestly, I don't think there's a bad episode in the season. It's just a question of whether they are fine, good, or great.



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  6. #86
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    I really like most of the Ferengi episodes on DS9. Then again, I'm about the biggest DS9 fan on planet earth, so there's that to consider.

  7. #87
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    There's only room for one biggest DS9 fan on planet earth in this thread, bucko.


    Just kidding, there's lot of room, help yourself to tea and biscuits!



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  8. #88
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    I was keeping those biscuits for a special occasion...

  9. #89
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    What could be more special than celebrating DS9?

  10. #90
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    Had a lot of fun in the last few days and I was all set to come back in here with chat about the great two parter in DS9, The Way of the Warrior.

    But instead, more serious matters. With all this stuff about Tarantino in the press right now, how likely is it that the proposed Quentin/Star Trek movie will quietly just peter out? I can't imagine that they've spent a lot on it so far, relative to if they really got going, and it's going to be easier just to step away.


    Unrelated, but Pro wrestling and Star Trek are the two areas where I'd love to be in charge....



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  11. #91
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    It would have been interesting, but yeah I have to agree there's a strong chance we just don't hear about the project again. I hope they remain open to letting directors with their own style/vision experiment with the Trek universe though, there's some good potential there. Star Trek is actually well poised to do a cinematic "universe" I think, as that seems to be the popular thing, and far less suitable franchises have tried their hand at it.

  12. #92
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    What could be quite interesting about it is that, in theory, you can spin things off into endless worlds, universes, timelines, and as long as you have some sort of plot macguffin in place you can basically do what you like. As you say, the franchise could be entirely apt for it because that means that all the different visions could theoretically be accommodated without impacting on the main, Alpha timeline.

    For me though, what I really want is something to carry on in that timeline, post-Voyager/Nemesis. It could be a film but what I really want is another TV Series. That's my pot of gold situation.



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  13. #93
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    I completely agree! Though you could have left Nemesis out of it and I wouldn't have minded. But yes, I would love to see something that actually takes place further down the original timeline. There was plenty of rich post DS9/Dominion War stuff in the Federation to be explored.

  14. #94
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    Nemesis is a crappy movie, no doubt. But it actually leaves a whole lot of stuff set up for the next series. I mean, I could do seven series based on what happens in the power vacuum in the Romulan Star Empire after Shinzon is defeated and the Senate has been evaporated.....

    I admit, I'm basically King of the Nerds at this point.



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  15. #95
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    Honestly, I would sooner watch Nemesis than Insurrection or Generations.

    I think the MMPORG Star Trek Online created a version of a timeline at that point, and incorporated the destruction of Romulus and Remus that spurred the Abramsverse into existence as well. But it's hardly a TV show. I'm with you there; a classic Trek TV show, done well, sticking to continuity doesn't seem much to ask despite apparently being so!

    I'm fed up now with them pratting about with prequels and reboots. (Though I continue to enjoy them, largely!)

  16. #96
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    The only Star Trek film I'd maybe watch Nemesis over is the first one, and that'd be a coin toss. It's that bad.
    Generations and Insurrection feel like extended episodes, but I like the episodes so I am not convinced that's the terrible thing people would have me believe....

    I have watched Generations a ton of times and though its pretty cheesy, I always find something new to like in it, too.


    But yeah, we clearly need to all join together and start the letter writing campaign to get me in charge of another Trek series, set twenty years after Voyager returns...



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  17. #97
    Samuel Plan
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    One thing I've always thought would be cool is adopting a Hornblower approach. Track one character across their career, different ships, a few core recurring characters; Bernard Cornwell does Star Trek.

  18. #98
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    I could be down with that. The crossovers with nautical fiction are there anyway so why not?



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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Plan View Post
    One thing I've always thought would be cool is adopting a Hornblower approach. Track one character across their career, different ships, a few core recurring characters; Bernard Cornwell does Star Trek.
    That would be pretty cool, even if they recasted the role as the character ages

  20. #100
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    It's the sort of thing that could suit Netflix over a network, because the high rate of change in casting and in characters across different crews increases the risks involved.



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  21. #101
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    I actually do like Generations. Insurrection, on the other hand... yeah, that goes in the bad pile.

  22. #102
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    I like it. It's not good, but the things it gets right are the TNG feel, which gets it a lot of grace in other areas from me. Basically I am a fan and I can't be objective about it.

    Been rewatching DS9 with the Mrs but had some time by myself, and rewatched a TNG after our conversations of the last few days. The Ensigns of Command, second episode of series 3. Really liked it, still. Very in what became the classic TNG episode mould but some nice touches in there too.



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  23. #103
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    Is that the one where Picard bosses it with the Grizellas Manoeuvre?

  24. #104
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    Yes! I was loving Riker's grin while Picard kept them waiting.



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  25. #105
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    Possibly my favourite Picard moment ever, that! Absolutely brilliant; never tire of watching it!

  26. #106
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    There is a lovely little thread around the idea of creativity holding the three plots together, too. I can't say enough good things about it....



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  27. #107
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    Into Season 2 of TNG and the show is coming along nicely. Really enjoyed "Elementary, my dear data" and you can just feel the cast is more comfortable. The focus is more on Data than Wesley Crusher and that's a major positive. I find Wesley Crusher as a character to be fascinating. In that, they did everything they could to make him so annoying in season one but if they pulled back the reins and just let him be background with a few shining moments, he's a much better character to round out the cast.

    Dr. Pulaski is like a Bones clone without the charm. Forcing the ribs at Data like Bones would playfully tease Spock.

  28. #108
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    Really liked the finale of Discovery. That felt very Trek indeed. And the ending literally made me squeal like a fanboy!

  29. #109
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    I just finished the Final Frontier movie (watching trek in broadcast order) What a load of dog shit that was.

  30. #110
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    Yeah, one of the worst Trek films for sure. Right up there with The Motion Picture.

  31. #111
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    I couldn't even make sense of it. Was mostly boring with a weak villain in sorbak who somehow brainwashes the crew to go see God who isn't really god... Uhura is made to dance naked in a very sexist scene.... its just ugh.

  32. #112
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    It's a much better made movie than ST:TMP. But it's probably the worst plot of any of them.



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  33. #113
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    A movie I made in high school was better made than The Motion Picture.

  34. #114
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    Genuine LOL. Mostly because I can believe it.

    The DS9 rewatch has reached the classic, little green men.

    So I was thinking. You know how there's that way of watching Star Wars where you skip Episode 1 ('Plan will hate this but just go with me for a minute)? I was thinking, how much can you abridge the first series of TNG so that you don't lose any plot but can hurry to the better stuff?

    I have it down to the two parts of Encounter at Farpoint, The Last Outpost, Where No one has gone before, Hide and Q, Haven, The Big Goodbye, Datalore, Home Soil, Skin of Evil, and The Neutral Zone. Anything I am missing, or can you really just lose more than half of year one?



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  35. #115
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    Off the top of my head, I would add "11001001" simply because its so fun to see the binary's not really because of plot. "Coming of age" because of the Admiral and Remnick who looks into the enterprise crew for wrongdoing (plays into their later appearance because its why Picard decides to go back to earth course i guess you could skip since you already don't have "conspiracy" ) "Heart of Glory" the first TNG Klingon episode basically even if its not that good. I'd also add "The Battle" for Picard referring to his time on the Stargazer and a battle with the ferengi.

    But your choices are more than fair.
    Last edited by Lazyking; 02-14-2018 at 07:11 AM.

  36. #116
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    You make an interesting point about 'The Battle' though. I'd have to rewatch a lot of it to see if that did actually have any significant bearing on the other episodes where the Stargazer is mentioned, or not.

    I don't remember Heart of Glory very well, but I guess there's a good chance there's some little detail about the Klingons in there that you probably shouldn't miss.



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  37. #117
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    Isn't Heart of Glory the first time you see the Klingons in TNG? And the first time you see the death scream? I guess if the former is true then it's a good way to introduce them into TNG canon.

    And for the record, the Machete Order Prime refers to is one I always adhere to! (I just watch Episode I as a stand alone whenever I fancy instead!)

  38. #118
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    Man, I am absolutely going to refer to that TNG stuff when I finally tackle the series. I've been rebuffed by the early seasons before so this looks invaluable to me.

  39. #119
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    Do you know, I think you can actually skip way more of the second series without losing any plot, if you are so inclined. I actually prefer the second season and I'd watch it for it's own sake, but if you wanted to.... I think you could get it down to about five episodes.



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  40. #120
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    If you're concerned about plot, sure can miss out on alot of the second season but there's some really outstanding eps in that season "A measure of a Man", "Elementary, My dear Data" "The Schizoid man" "A Matter of Honor" ..... "The Icarus factor" intros Riker's father and Riker's backstory somewhat "Q Who" the First Borg Appearance...."Pen Pals" has an outstanding scene about the Prime Directive and "The Emissary" is a great episode that details more of Worf's backstory with his first love intrest, K'ehlar (who is an outstanding character)

    The second season just ends pretty badly with pretty much a clip show of Riker of all people.

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