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Thread: The Final Frontier - Star Trek Thread

  1. #41
    Samuel Plan
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    Well someone's feeling grumpy!

    Yeah, I've not seen Orville either. I want to though; if only because I still get a bit of a kick out of Galaxy Quest!
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  2. #42
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    One thing the Orville has going for it is Brannon Braga as an executive producer. Hes worked on Star Trek shows and movies since The Next Generation series.

  3. #43
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    I've given up on The Orville simply because the Seth's brand of humor doesn't land for me anymore.

  4. #44
    Samuel Plan
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    So, thinking my favourite ten episodes would have to be:

    Measure of a Man
    Chain of Command
    In the Pale Moonlight
    The Thaw
    Balance of Terror
    Siege of AR-558
    Year of Hell
    Scorpion
    Best of Both World's
    Latent Image

    Love the first, third and tenth especially.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    I've given up on The Orville simply because the Seth's brand of humor doesn't land for me anymore.
    Yeah it definitely sticks out when the jokes don't land. The first two episodes weren't the greatest but I think the third was very strong and last night was good too.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Plan View Post
    Well someone's feeling grumpy!

    Yeah, I've not seen Orville either. I want to though; if only because I still get a bit of a kick out of Galaxy Quest!
    Ha, not grumpy. Not excessively anyway. Just posting more often so my real personality is coming out....

    I love Galaxy Quest too. If it's anything like that you can sign me up.

    Interesting call to have four Voyager episodes in the top ten. Truth be told I've actually forgotten 1-2 of the ones you've picked here. Annoyed I didn't choose Chain of Command now, and Balance of Terror is a great TOS episode. Currently working through DS9 again so my list might change as I get to the ones I haven't seen as often.

    Brannon Braga is an interesting figure in Trek terms. He's often a bit damned as an Exec Producer of Voyager and Enterprise and gets a negative comparison with Ron Moore a lot, which I'm not sure is completely fair. He also wrote some of the best bits of TNG, but also some of the worst episodes of the last few seasons. An interesting position to be in, for sure, but definitely one of the most important people in the Trek franchise in the 1990s and early 2000s.

    Looking forward to tonight's episode. Optimistic that the first episodes will have things up well and that this is where we really start to kick things off.
    Last edited by Prime Time; 10-02-2017 at 07:24 AM.

  7. #47
    Samuel Plan
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    I did say I loved Voyager.

    I almost picked Equinox too, but it lost out to The Thaw; simply for the final scene between Janeway and Fear. Mulgrew kills that. I love YOH because of its underdog vibes, Scorpion for finding a great new twist with the Borg and Latent Image for being a sort of expansion on Measure of a Man; to live up to our responsibilities that come with expanding liberty.

    Balance of Terror I consider to be an excellent piece of Cold War thriller. I've always wanted to see them remake it as a movie, quite honestly; a real fraught two hours with that level of paranoia would be outstanding.

    Just got through tonight's ep. I enjoyed it. Lorca is a great character already. Only gripe would be one Alien tribute that felt a little awkward, and everyone outside of Michael being, well, a bit douchey. Hopefully that won't become a central staple; at least not to the same degree. I ADORE the production design though. Loving the uniforms especially - perfect marriage between. Enterprise and those seen in The Cage.

  8. #48
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    I think the biggest complaints coming out of this ep was that most of the characters come off as douches. but the thing is, to them, Michael did a terrible thing and since this show is based around Michael so for them to be douchy to her is pretty natural. Once things settle down, i hope things cool a bit on that regard.

  9. #49
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    Still hit and miss in my opinion, although the ratio was a little bit better this time around. There were moments in this episode that genuinely felt like Star Trek, which was good. I think the 'douche factor' could still be a bit of a problem, if it isn't going somewhere. I don't mind being in the dark if there is some kind of reveal down the line, but this still needs to have the Trek feel at the end of the day, and if they abandon that and this just becomes the norm I think it will fail. There's already some antagonism towards the show in the Trek community and I don't think it's going to pull in a big enough new audience to counterbalance that.

    So yes, still plenty of promise, but I feel we need to be moving towards a show that more closely matches the Trek mood (even if it is a darker iteration), rather than this being the status quo.

  10. #50
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    Been rewatching ds9 lately and thoroughly enjoying the second season episode, 'Rivals'. Not a typical episode at all but really like the way it's written.

  11. #51
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    Rivals.... Which one was that again?
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  12. #52
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    It's the one where the laws of probability are thrown off on the station, but the episode is really structured around two rivalries - the main one between Quark and a new competitor on the station, and then Chief O'Brien trying to keep with Dr Bashir on the racquetball court that he has built. Then the two stories kind of dovetail as it comes to a head.

    Honestly, I know the current trend is to think that arcs that run across a whole series are the bollocks and so much smarter than episodic TV, but this is the kind of thing that proves you can write just incredibly well within the classic 40 minutes and out formula.

  13. #53
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    I definitely prefer a mix of arc stuff and standalone episodes. If you can hit that balance you really have it made. DS9 is a good example for the most part, best series arc in Trek for my money and quite a few good standalone episodes too.

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    I completely agree. In many ways my favourite thing is where the episode will stand on its own completely but where there are elements pulling everything together, which is I think what the 1990s Trek used to have going for them almost across the board.

    News breaking in the last hour or so that Discovery has been renewed for a second season, so they're clearly happy with the numbers so far.

  15. #55
    Samuel Plan
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    Watched this week's episode of DSC earlier. It gets "Trekier" by the week, I think. I rather quite enjoyed this week's for its sense of 'adventure of the week.'
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  16. #56
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    I have enjoyed the last couple of episodes more. I am still cautious but more optimistic that with a bit of patience they will get there.

    For me the big issues at the moment are the Klingons (too bestial and culturally out of step with the originals, though given this is pre-Kirk I guess I can live with it) and Lorca (who just isn't right, somehow, and needs to be shaped into the franchise ethos better or got out of the Captain's chair sooner rather than later). But there's definitely more obvious positives coming through than in the first few.


    Though with that said, have you noticed how the last few episodes have been very similar to stuff from the other series? Episode 7 reminded me very much of TNG's Cause and Effect and episode 8 of This Side of Paradise from The Original Series. Seems like they are trying to put new twists on old conceits. Honestly, not the worst idea first up, given the problems the show has had getting people onside anyway.

  17. #57
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    Still a bit unsure about the way they've left this for the mid-season break, to be honest. I'm not entirely sure where they are taking this, and whether Discovery is going to settle down into something that really belongs in the Trek canon or whether it'll be a slightly embarrassing bolt on. Right now the potential is there for them to do something very different that'll still fit well, but it's still probably floating around as the weakest series by some distance. That's not shocking; TNG had a ropey first couple of seasons, so it needs time. But I am still not going into an episode feeling completely comfortable with the direction they are taking. I'm hearing that the second season is going to feature an attempt to tie things more closely to the original series, which will either kill or cure it, I think.

    The more chat I hear, the more it sounds like the comments on the previous page about their being no more Trek movies in the Abrams timeline sounds to be true. It seems as if there's no real appetite at Paramount to knock on that door again. If that's the case, best considered not part of the story, just a bolt on like the novels and, aside from the odd repeat on TV, forgotten about.



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  18. #58
    Samuel Plan
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    Yeah, I've generally enjoyed it as a sci fi show but it never hit that sense to me of being indispensable Trek. I guess it's going to rest in the hands of season 2. Saying that, I did rather enjoy the hell out of the mid season finale, be it Trek or not.

  19. #59
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    So I am carrying on with DS9 now discovery is on hiatus to get my fix. Now getting to the point where they mention the Dominion before they first arrive.

    Really here to report the news that Trek movies seem to be back on the table though, with Abrams making a pitch with Quentin Tarantino, of all people.

    That's going to be an interesting one.



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  20. #60
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    Just when it looked like Trek movies could be dead for a while, Quentin Tarantino of all people had an idea JJ Abrams loved and it's moving faster than expected. If Tarantino directs it, it will likely be his final film after he does the Charles Manson-era one which is starting production.

    http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin-...ms-1202222161/

    Tarantino demanded an R-rating; Abrams and Paramount agreed.

    I'm a huge Tarantino fan so this is very interesting news.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 12-07-2017 at 06:31 PM.

  21. #61
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    Tarantino is a big Star Trek fan apparently so its definitely intriguing.

  22. #62
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    It's an interesting thought. I don't know what R translates to for us, but there hasn't been a Trek movie with a rating higher than 12 before now, so it'd be different just for that reason alone.



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  23. #63
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    The Tarantino film seems to be rolling and the guy who wrote The Revenant is on board to write the script.



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  24. #64
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    Somebody wrote the Revenant? Did they just turn in a book of blank pages?

  25. #65
    Samuel Plan
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    Just caught the new episode of Discovery.

    Will avoid spoilers but I think it's safe to say that the stakes (and moral threat) have suddenly got considerably higher! Really dug it, and feel suddenly hooked.

  26. #66
    Samuel Plan
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    Has nobody else seen the new episode yet?!
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  27. #67
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    Not yet - haven't had the time and inclination at the same moment yet. More than once I have thought about it and decided to watch a DS9 instead.

    Soon, though.



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  28. #68
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    So I just caught up on it. Holy shit, we are through the fucking looking glass now. As you say, stakes raised, and the tension is dialled up dramatically.

    I've also come to the conclusion that it's a bit more Star Trek than I thought. Only the influences on it feel much more like the movies than the tv shows, and where it is like the TV shows it owes more to the originals than it does to TNG and the later stuff. That's a bit of a disappointment to me but I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it.

    Some evidence already that Lorca might be moving in a more Trekky direction too, which is good to see, as he's been one of the things bothering me most about ST:DIS so far.



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  29. #69
    Samuel Plan
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    Awesome! Glad to see you're digging it Prime. Someone I spoke to at work today doesn't much care for this through the looking glass type stuff - apparently never has - which crushed me, because I've enjoyed the last two episodes so much I've wanted to just get excited about them.

    I'm actually starting to really love Lorca. I think his arc is great. We seem to be watching him develop slowly into the ideal Starfleet Captain, and seeing that actually occur rather than be spoken about is making for great Trek television. His growing relationship with Burnham is fantastic too I think; sort of switches the roles of mentor and student in a weird way, with Michael being the more optimistic one and taking on the role I imagine Georgiou held for her when she first joined the Shenzhou.

    I'm loving the general tone right now too. It feels really genuinely paranoid and stressful. I think it's making for great tele. Sure, the 'twists' aren't all that shocking - apart from the big one in the first episode back that came halfway through - but, importantly, they make a lot of sense and are escalating the story at a perfect pace. Genuinely at a point where I can't wait for the next episode.

    Question remains whether they can keep building on their improving standard and then maintain it without the crux of such a fan appealing arc.
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  30. #70
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    Caught up on Monday now, and every week now I watch this and think 'the shit has hit the fan'. I think we're probably starting to get a better sense of why it felt strange at the beginning and there's a bit of payoff on what they were trying to achieve starting to come through.



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  31. #71
    Samuel Plan
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    I honestly felt like the last episode was a step down, if still fun. Lots of people just standing around doing their Basil Exposition acts. I really dug the plot twist though and am looking forward to seeing how it plays out! I foolishly cancelled my subscription to Netflix a while back so looks like I might need to re-subscribe before Monday! Interested to see how they marry this up to TOS especially now.
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  32. #72
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    People standing around talking plot is basically Star Trek in a nutshell. But I'm OK with that. I do mean generally the way they keep breaking out surprise after surprise more than anything about quality, though. But they clearly have a trick or two in them.

    Just watching the episode 'Prophet Motive', which is way better than I remember. Very understated which may be why it didn't stand out first but I am loving it.
    Last edited by Prime Time; 01-27-2018 at 01:23 PM.



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  33. #73
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    Despite having only watched through DS9 a year or so ago, I can't remember that at all, having quickly looked it up on Memory Alpha! But then the Ferengi episodes never did much for me anyway. I get the impression the creators considered them to be much funnier than I ever did.

    I'm looking forward to the next two episodes of Discovery, and how they resolve the hanging threads of the recent arc in particular.
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  34. #74
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    I can't quite put my finger on what it was but over the last three episodes I've gone from interested to craving the next episode in the series. I'm loving the density of the plot and how everything is building on top of the previous episodes, it really has a big sense of momentum.

    Highlight for me was Saru stepping up, demanding greatness of his crew and making such an epic speech to motivate them.

    The final twist at the end really intrigued me too. I love me some time travel fun and am really excited to see how they resolve it all.

  35. #75
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    It was less of a deep intake of breath moment this week. Still pretty cool though.

    With you on Suru. That bit was totally Trek.

    Very curious as to Jason Isaacs future with the show now.



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  36. #76
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    So not to get off the Discovery talk, but I'm not watching the season yet after I watched the first two eps.. I wanted to talk about working my way thru all the the series for the first time. When i was growing up, TNG was on all the time, DS9, Voyager were all in in my childhood to teen years.. I wasn't into sci fi then, so I didn't watch. Fast forward to now and I'm finally workin my way thru TNG and I was wondering how long it took everyone to get into a Trek series like hooked/major fan? It didn't take long for the orignal series for me. Even if season one of TOS is finding its footing, I love Kirk/Spock/Bones so they very engaging to watch.

    TNG its been a little harder. The episodes in season 1 (the season i'm on) are poorly paced or poorly executed.. but even when i like episodes, I've really only connected with Picard, Crusher because of Picard ( i love their relationship to each other ) and Data. The rest of the characters are either annoying (Wes), Boring (Riker) and/or pointless (Yar and Troi) I know consensus TNG gets much better in the middle seasons and like i said, I still enjoy some of the episodes in season one, but my character investment is really lacking so far
    Last edited by Lazyking; 02-05-2018 at 01:28 PM.

  37. #77
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    It took me one episode of TNG, but I came in a lot later. Honestly, the best way to watch for me is to pretend series 1 and 2 don't exist until you are invested and then come back to them as a prequel. They are so, so much weaker. It gets a world better in series three, keeps improving in four and then catches fire in 5&6.

    If you have access to the lot, a bold way to do it would be to start from The Best of Both Worlds, part one: the finale of series three. Honestly, I think you can jump in there just fine.



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  38. #78
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    Yeah its on Netflix here which I have so that's how I been watching it. Bold approach indeed Prime but I've already taken the plunge to watch in order. I'll plow through and see if it connects better as i go along. I find the backstage politics really fascinating. How Roddenberry really wanted TNG to be without internal conflict, all the different writers, the turmoil with the cast leaving, then some returning. For a show so successful, it certainly had its problems along the way.

  39. #79
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    If you stick with the order, then you only really have to slog through season one. I don't really remember many episodes fondly from that year (the finale, The Neutral Zone, is an exception) but although it isn't amazing, the writing and characterisation is much imoroved in 2. I like quite a few episodes by that point, even if it isn't as many as three and beyond.

    It is absolutely worth sticking with, though. When you get to the good stuff the writing is a league better than most TOS.



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  40. #80
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    Yeah season one of TNG is not very good, but mostly i just feel bad that the women in the cast are barely used and not really that effective or interesting. That's one area that I hope improves.

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