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Thread: 2016 Election Night: Trump or Clinton?

  1. #161
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Im too busy to deal with the rest of this (but I will) but GNR doesnt know what he is talking about. Overstaying a visa is not a crime in the US. While it is a misdemeanor to enter the US without being processed, crossing that border without a visa is not, nor ever has been a FELONY. Never. Not once. Do your homework GNR. Do you not understand what a felony is?

    In Canada, If you enter the country illegally (especially on a Visa Overstay) you can literally pay $350 for a work permit (if within 90 days, if not just leave and come back in, by leaving you clear the slate).

  2. #162
    It was great when Steve Austin gave Trump the stone cold stunner.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Yeah Im sure FDR was was getting 8hrs of sleep during the Great Depression and WWII as he suffered from Polio....dude you are basing his presidency on hrs of sleep. Like we actually know how many hrs of sleep Lincoln got a night during the Civil War....fucking dumb point.

    You have no idea what happened that day? Trumps national Security adviser stepped down that day you posted that. It was embarrassing.

    Please tell me what bills he has signed that have improved this country at this point. The immigration one was flushed down the courts toilet.

    Im a guy that wants him to succeed, Im a guy that was glad Hiliary didn't win....but to compare this guy to legendary presidents at this stage his laugh out loud funny and seems like you are choosing to ignore basic facts of American history. I think the guy gets shit on way too much to the point the general public is probably sick of the media doing it and if they keep it up he will be elected again. But no he hasn't done anything extraordinary yet nor do I think he comes close to Presidents such as Washington who was forming a nation. Banana Land take you are taking here.
    I like how you dwelled on me saying Trump gets 4hrs of sleep and ignored everything else I said. That's almost as bad as comparing a president in 2017 to a president in 1932 or 1776...

    Trumps national security advisder stepping down was hardly "embarrassing". Liberals labeled it that to do what they do best.....try and make him look bad. Key positions under presidents step down all the time. Yes, rarely do they do it within the 1st month, but it's not this HUGE STORY.

    You want Trump to succeed. Ok. Why did you vote for him? What did he say he would do? That's why you voted for him, right? Because of what he said he would do...

    Let's see what he did...

    - Passed a bill for the Wall
    - Withdrew from the TPP
    - Pushed the Dakota pipeline through
    - Sanctions against individuals and groups linked to Iran’s ballistic missile program. He still has yet to renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal made under President Barack Obama, which he pledged he would do, but the sanctions are a start. It's early...
    - Began (again, it's very early in the process) to deport illegals with specialized teams (this will ramp up as time goes by)
    - Gave full support to law enforcement law enforcement throughout the US vs. siding at all with anti-law enforcement bullshit
    - Put in place a ban to help prevent radicals from coming in (yes, this got over turned....but he did what he said he would do. He can't win if his people don't back him and this is far from over FYI)
    - He is moving forward in repealing Obamacare. He hasn't put anything in place yet because he wants to put in a replacement and congress is (supposedly) putting this replacement plan together. This is the one thing that is actually pissing me off about Trump. He needs to repeal Obamacare and NOT put a fucking replacment in. Any sort of replacement whatsover will still be a complete fucking rip off to the working class.
    - He's met with multiple world leaders. Pretty much everyone that was willing too. Yes, not all the meeting and phone calls went so well, but he has an open door policy and is going out of his way to be diplomatic to any world leader he can.

    What I like the most since he's become president....the dow at record numbers. My investments have never grown like this before. If you think Trump has nothing to do with this you're clueless. Consumer confidence is at an all time high because we now have a president who caters to earners. Investors, for the most part, are earners. If I hadn't had to of pissed away almost $30K in bullshit out of my control this past year I would be investing like a mad man right now. If anyone has the money to do so, and they aren't, they're passing up free money. In 4 years we will prob end up with another liberal, hand-out pushing president (because sadly that is what a majority of this country wants in this day and age), and when that happens, the dow and most peoples investments will plummet like a motherfucker.

    The only thing Trump hasn't done which he said he'd do was go after Hillary, and I'm glad he didn't as it be a waste of time. Yeah, she's a criminal, but she's politically dead in the water and in her 70's. It be a waste of resources.

    Tell me, Mikey, what is Trump not doing that you want him to do?

    Be pissed at the republican congress for helping the Dems cockblock everything Trump is pushing. Did they think he was bullshitting in his campagin?

    I love how liberals and especially the liberal media is going nuts about the Russian crap. NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL HAS COME ABOUT WHATSOEVER. SESSIONS WAS CLEARED SARAH. I've said this before and I will say it again....Putin is an international gangster and he's someone you can either ignore, go after (this would cause WW3 and be very ill advised to say the least) or....work with. If Trump and his crew are working with Putin behind the scenes....good. Guess who's going to handle the mideast for us....guess who hates ISIS more than we do....Let him look like the bad guy for bombing the piss out of the desert. Let the rest of the world call him cruel instead of us for doing so.
    Last edited by notslap; 03-03-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  4. #164
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    Sarah you can choose a one way ticket to Dublin Ireland or Guantanamo Bay. Where would you like to continue your subversive activities from ?

  5. #165
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Two things.

    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post
    - Passed a bill for the Wall
    No he didnt. A bill gets passed through congress and signed by the President. President Trump signed an Executive Order. This is not a Bill. This is not a law. Nothing has gotten passed. He signed an Executive Order. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...t-improvements) Trump's order demands that the wall begins to be built with "existing funds and resources" of the Department of Homeland Security. There is only $20 million that can be re-directed to the wall according to a memo prepared by DHS and distributed to congressional members. This means (unlike what GNR thinks) Trump will need Congress to appropriate the billions in funds to build the wall. Trump will need to pass an appropriations bill with that funding earmakred (or a significantly increased block funding to DHS, which is extremely unlikely) in order to build the wall. President Trump has not done that yet.

    Trump has not passed a bill for the Wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post
    I love how liberals and especially the liberal media is going nuts about the Russian crap. NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL HAS COME ABOUT WHATSOEVER. SESSIONS WAS CLEARED SARAH. I've said this before and I will say it again....Putin is an international gangster and he's someone you can either ignore, go after (this would cause WW3 and be very ill advised to say the least) or....work with. If Trump and his crew are working with Putin behind the scenes....good. Guess who's going to handle the mideast for us....guess who hates ISIS more than we do....Let him look like the bad guy for bombing the piss out of the desert. Let the rest of the world call him cruel instead of us for doing so.
    Nothing substantial? A presidential national security advisor resigned. There is an ongoing FBI investigation. Members of the House and Senate (including Sen. Lindsey Graham and Sen. Chuck Shumer) met with the FBI Director last week to prevent their investigations from interfering with the FBI's investigation.

    Sessions was not cleared. Sessions was forced to recuse himself from the Russia investigations because it would be a conflict for one to run an investigation which one is a suspect. (and that currently places 2 Obama approved DOJ officials in charge of the investigation, United States attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia Dana Boente and FBI Director Comey) . Sessions is sending a letter to "supplement" (meaning correct) the record of his congressional testimony, detailing the meetings he failed mention under oath with the Russian ambassador. This means his testimony was untrue. I do not think it was perjury (I personally doubt, without more information, that there was any intent to mislead) but he has had to correct the record. The investigations are ongoing and could haunt the Trump administration for years (especially if the Republicans lose either the House or the Senate).

    If he had been cleared, like you say Slap, then he would not have to recuse himself. There are currently pressures for Sessions to recuse himself on the investigations into Russian hacking, but we will see in the next few months if it becomes an issue.

  6. #166
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    Slap when you know the difference between an executive order and a bill, ill have a discussion with you. Until then pull out the old AP Gvt texts books from Jr year of HS. You are in over your head here.

    You said he was the hardest working president "ever". So apparently and this is news to me the term ever actually has an expiration date on it now? So what are the years where the cut off is where we cannot compare presidents to one another? Or do you decide that date to fit your narrative ?

  7. #167
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    You're correct, Mikey. I did not know the difference. Apparently they didn't pound that into my head turning my run for my BA in Electrical Engineering, despite graduating with honors.

    Maybe they did, as you say, go over at nausea when I was a junior in high school. Clearly I was too high, bored to remember. Piss on me for not knowing the difference between "executive orders" and "passing a bill". I don't google till my fingers bleed like Sarah does. I call it as I see it. I am sorry, Mikey. I am soooo stupid for not knowing the difference. Did knowing the difference for you help you get your wrestling columns compiled?

    Yes, I still believe Trump is the hardest working president ever. I believe this because of the daily news reports kicked out by all the various outlets of what they show him doing and saying on a daily basis. It seems like every single day you hear of him at least trying to do something significant. Unfortunately, Congress, even though it's mostly red now, is giving him a hard time on a lot of things. Trump took on and shit on the republican party before he took on Hillary and the dems. That may have cost him.

    Here are the topics I care about. Feel free to argue with logistics that I don't know of to try and win an arguement, even though you vow you're a Trump backer and haven't switched sides in route to possibly score a date with a female you met on an online messageboard.

    - Trump said he would build a wall. He is doing what he can to get the wall built. He is running into obstacles doing so. I always thought the wall was a pipe dream to begin with, but I also thought Trump winning the election was a pipe dream. I now think that the wall is feasible and could happen. Will the wall go all around the country with motion censored machine guns as I wished? Doubtful, but if a wall goes up, it helps deter illegals.

    - Trump tried blocking the refugees. Judge overturned his order, and as of today the order is back on (sans Iraq now) but only for 120 days. This pisses me of. 120 days won't do shit. I am hoping something new will come out in the next 120 days to continue the ban but we'll see. Regardless, Trump at least tried.

    - Trump said he would put a task force together to boot illegals. As of this post, the ICE Raids have been fairly small and the number of deportations hasn't been what the people who voted for Trump wanted. I am hoping that going forward these ICE raids will begin to deport much bigger numbers. Yes, Sarah, as of now, Obama deported many more illegals than Trump. I am hoping Trump sticks to his word and starts going after these fucks as hard as he said he would. I don't see what is holding this back either. Before Trump was president....it was ILLEGAL to be an ILLEGAL ALIEN.

    - Trump said he would unconditionally back law enforcement. I think the way the peaceful, masked, protestors are getting their ass kicked by cops proves this, but that's just me. There's really not much proof for this yet. When another cops vs. BLM (or similar group) goes down, we'll just have to see how he handles it.

    - Trump defunded Planned Parenthood. THe American taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for everyday sexual irresponsibility. Trump signed an EXECUTIVE ORDER...NOT A BILL DON'T MISTAKE THE TWO, and the International Planned Parenthood Federation said it will continue to promote abortion around the globe and forfeit the $100 million it had received annually from the U.S. government. I thought the number would be way more than $100million but, whatever. Planned Parenthood has already (stupidly) proven then can be privately funded via donations.

    Now, for what I want the most....

    REPEAL OBAMACARE

    He said he would. Supposedly Congress is putting a "replacement" plan together. FUCK THAT. Repeal it and move on. Before the ACA we didn't have a replacement. We don't need one now. Taxing the piss out of the working class so jimmy the crackhead and wendy on welfare can have health insurance can suck my cock. Here in WI, there is something called Badger care that people with out insurance can get on (and of course its free) if they have kids and they can qualify with a low income. I don't like it but its better than fucking Obamacare. If Trump doesn't repeal Obamacare I will feel his run will be a failure regardless of anything else.

    Sarah - Session is cleared, and no jurisdiction is looking into Russia. Drop it already.

  8. #168
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    Not sure what your bachelors degree has to do with anything. Nor my wrestling columns which you seem to be obsessed with lol for well over a year now. Using that logic I guess I should rub my M.ed in your face. You ridiculous with your logic on why Trump is the hardest working president EVERRRRRRR.

    You were arguing politics and government accomplishments and didn't know the difference between a bill and an executive order to defend Trump's "accomplishments". The average American's lack of knowledge on how our own government works is shocking.

    Let me make it clear I'm sick of the PC culture, the constant Trump attacking, biased media. I'm for stronger immigration policies and less democratic hand out programs. Getting tougher one terrosim. But building a wall that Mexico will not be paying for lol with US tax dollars is a colossal waste of money and defunding planned parenthood is beyond stupid. would you rather pay taxes to help raise an unwanted child or pay the abortion. I'll tell you which one is cheaper. Planned parent hood is more than just abortions. Are you against birth control too? You are talking about decimal points of a penny of your tax dollars if that going to birth control so we can fuck freely without worry. I might be conservative but I'm pro free sex.

    Get rid of Obamacare it's a disaster.
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-06-2017 at 09:40 PM.

  9. #169
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    So Slap, Trump is trying to do a lot of things. I agree with that. He is TRYING to block Muslims but that will not survive judicial review. He is trying to build a wall, but doesn't have the money to pay for it and is relying on congress. He is trying to deport more illegal immigrants than ever before but he is running into roadblocks from the courts, congress and ICE. Trump is putting a lot of effort into being president. Effort is not accomplishment.

    Trump does back Law enforcement, unless you are the FBI, then he accuses you of doing something you did not do and he doesnt even check with you first. He bashes the CIA, he blames the military for a soldier's death and attempted to usurp the local authority of police departments on illegals (but again, has had trouble applying it through the justice department) but he has said all the right things.

    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post

    Sarah - Session is cleared, and no jurisdiction is looking into Russia. Drop it already.
    Nope. There are ongoing investigations going on both in Congress and by the FBI/NSA from which Sessions has recused himself from. Congressmen have visited the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, to review classified evidence on Russia’s involvement in the presidential election. the Senate is preparing to interview witnesses. Former Obama Officials have been contacted including former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and former acting Attorney General Sally Yates. Trump Campaign officials Roger Stone, Paul Manafort , J.D. Gordon, Rick Dearborn and Carter Page have also been contacted about testifying and ordered to preserve documents. There is an ongoing investigation being run by FBI Director James Comey involving members of the FBI, CIA, Justice Department, National Security Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Treasury Department. The Senators met with Comey recently to understand where they could and where they couldn't go as to not compromise continuing investigations.

    One of the people reportedly under investigation is Rick Dearborn who was Jeff Sessions' chief of staff when Sessions was a senator. This is an example of a reason why one would have to recuse themselves from an investigation.

    Now onto something more light. Donald Trump is surrounded by idiots.

    St. Patrick's day is a big deal in America. It is a big deal for presidents too. There is a state dinner. The leaders of Ireland (and usually leaders from Northern Ireland) go to the white house and meet with the president. This is especially good for Donald Trump who has been a long advocate for Irish Freedom. Donald Trump attended a Sinn Féin fundraising dinner in 1995 just a couple of months before the armed wing of Sinn Fein, the Provisional IRA, unleashed a terror attack on London’s Canary Wharf causing over 100 million dollars in damage and killing 2 men. Donald Trump has long been supportive of the IRA and there are many connections with people close to Trump with the support for Irish Republicanism.

    That what makes this so disappointing.

    Donald Trump has issued special Irish Make America Great Again hats (Green and Gold naturally ... no orange to be found)



    Do you see the problem?

    The symbol of St. Patrick's day is a Shamrock, a 3 leafed clover which St. Patrick used to teach people about the holy trinity.



    This is a shamrock. it is a common symbol for Ireland, probably known best in the USA for being one of the symbols of the Boston Celtics.



    That means there is a problem with that Make America Great Again hat.

    The description for the Donald Trump hat says it has an "embroidered four-leaf clover" on the back.

    A Shamrock, used as the international symbol for St Patrick's Day, is a three-leaf clover.

    Oops.

  10. #170
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Not sure what your bachelors degree has to do with anything. Nor my wrestling columns which you seem to be obsessed with lol for well over a year now. Using that logic I guess I should rub my M.ed in your face. You ridiculous with your logic on why Trump is the hardest working president EVERRRRRRR.

    You were arguing politics and government accomplishments and didn't know the difference between a bill and an executive order to defend Trump's "accomplishments". The average American's lack of knowledge on how our own government works is shocking.

    Let me make it clear I'm sick of the PC culture, the constant Trump attacking, biased media. I'm for stronger immigration policies and less democratic hand out programs. Getting tougher one terrosim. But building a wall that Mexico will not be paying for lol with US tax dollars is a colossal waste of money and defunding planned parenthood is beyond stupid. would you rather pay taxes to help raise an unwanted child or pay the abortion. I'll tell you which one is cheaper. Planned parent hood is more than just abortions. Are you against birth control too? You are talking about decimal points of a penny of your tax dollars if that going to birth control so we can fuck freely without worry. I might be conservative but I'm pro free sex.

    Get rid of Obamacare it's a disaster.
    See, it's why I liked this guy from day 1.

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  11. #171
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    ^ cool, you hate Obamacare too

    "My MED"

    easy blade

    The average american doesn't need to know the difference between a "bill" and an "executive order". why would they? how would it change how they voted if they did? your point blows at best.

  12. #172
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    Obamacae is a mess. They need to just nationalize the entire process, and allow the government to negotiate everything, from drug prices to c-scan prices. Free market does not work for healthcare, this is not something that needs be profited from. With the amount of money that is wasted on insurance companies, medicare & other schemes, we very well could pay for free heath-care for everyone. The insurance company jobs are non-essential, that are just an intermediary that pushes around paperwork & makes things more expensive.

    Those jobs would get absorbed by a boom in healthcare sector jobs. Private companies can establish some private for-profit hospitals for those ignorant people that are insistent on getting bent over, and raped in the name of healthcare.

    Now before everyone gets on the soap box about how "the U.S. has the best medical system in the world, it's working as intended if you have money you can pay for treatment, we have wealthy sheiks, wealthy Canadians and presidents from other countries fly over here for healthcare. " Well no shit, if I was the king of saudi arabia or some other baller I would fly to America to pay top dollar for the best treatment int he world.

    Unfortunately, most of us are not celebrities, sheiks and presidents. We are working class stiffs that cannot afford to pay out of pocket for immediate world class treatment. So the system needs to be fixed, and turning it over to the free-market insurance crooks and venture capitalists to rape us is not the way to go.

    And slap - Ideally you should have learned the difference between the two in jr. high school. You could have played that off differently, now you are no different from the people they go interview in times square and ask simple questions , like how many senators does each state have ? who is the vice president ? what is the constitution ? These are idiots you are laughing at when they get interviewed on the colbert report, but now, you are one of these idiots.

    As for Sarah saying I don't know what im talking about, at the top of the page. That is an easy cop out, I will remember it next some she starts spouting off some ridiculous BS.
    Last edited by GNR711; 03-11-2017 at 12:32 PM.

  13. #173
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GNR711 View Post
    As for Sarah saying I don't know what im talking about, at the top of the page. That is an easy cop out, I will remember it next some she starts spouting off some ridiculous BS.
    But GNR, on what we were talking about, you were REALLY wrong. Here, let me show you.

    “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.” U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 9, clause 7

    OK GNR, this is a quote from the US Constitution.

    You said
    Quote Originally Posted by GNR711 View Post
    About the wall - Trump CAN LEGALLY divert funds from Homeland Security. There is 40 billion earmarked for Homeland, divert it, then let them cry foul to congress, the congressmen repping homeland will give them more in the next fiscal year, and provide emergency stop-gap funds. It may be unprecedented, but after 8 unprecedented years of Muslims and gays shoved up the ass of the American public by the Obama Admin, id say we are in need of drastic measures.
    But here in reality, the President cannot do that. The President cannot divert money from appropriations already passed into law. It is not in his power constitutionally. It would be immediately unconstitutional. Not only would that action be blocked by the Supreme Court (after a democrat member of House of Representatives took him to court) but it would also be an impeachable offense.

    The Congress has the “Power of the Purse”. The President cannot spend money without congressional authorization. It is in the Constitution. Trump would not be able to use Homeland Security funds for whatever he wants without Congressional approval. It would need to be in the budget. Trump would need 60 votes in the Senate. He doesn’t even have 50 votes for it.

    Congress does allow the President some discretion within the particular parts of Homeland Security. Congress COULD block grant money to Homeland and then Trump would be able to use it as he pleased (But Congress never does that). Congress could grant Trump funds for the project directly (but the Senate Majority Leader, a Republican already said he isn’t going to do that). The President must seek authorization from Congress before getting the money to build major projects. This is how Government works. Checks and Balances.

  14. #174
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    Get outta here with that nonsense, I don't have time for you.

  15. #175
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    No slap the average American does not need to know the difference between a bill and an executive order to vote I never said that. But if Americans like you think Trump is doing the best job EVERRRRRRR because he's signing executive orders left and right is mind blowing. Face it you lost all credibility in this discussion when you didn't know the difference. Continue to yap all you want but it was all over as soon as Sarah gave you a HS lesson on it.

  16. #176
    Senior Member JacobWrestledGod's Avatar
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    and defunding planned parenthood is beyond stupid. would you rather pay taxes to help raise an unwanted child or pay the abortion. I'll tell you which one is cheaper. Planned parent hood is more than just abortions. Are you against birth control too? You are talking about decimal points of a penny of your tax dollars if that going to birth control so we can fuck freely without worry. I might be conservative but I'm pro free sex.
    Come on, birth control is damn cheap nowadays and Planned parenthood isn't the only one giving low cost birth control.

    When it comes to Planned parenthood, it's simple : You see babies as dollars and cents, cost vs benefit. I see them as life with equal constitution rights as the mother who claims the baby is not allowed to live. Birth control is the way to go. But not abortions. US gives thousands of refugees refuge and then allow millions of babies to be aborted.

    Am I saying make abortion illegal? no, i am saying make abortion harder. Over here, our laws force the mother to go for ultrasound, view abortion videos, understand every single facets of how the baby dies, and also provide financial, social and adoption help alternatives before giving the consent form. if the person goes ahead, then it's their responsibility. Planned Parenthood is on the opposite spectrum.

    People who say Planned Parenthood care beyond abortions is nonsense. They have ultrasound machine, at low cost ONLY FOR ABORTIONS. millions of dollars pumped into the system for the machines only for abortion purposes.

    And Jacob wrestled with God.






  17. #177
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    You are preaching to the quire about the US opening its doors for just about anyone lol. I do not have an issue with anyone that believes abortion should be illegal, its a fair argument with may valid points. I still side with the pro choice people on this one more of a policy issue for me than anything. Morally and personally I think you should take accountability for your actions and be smart when it comes to sex, but I know thats not how the world works. So I choose policy of my personal feelings.

    Im little confused by your points on planned parent hood. Again planned parent hood isn't just abortions its exactly what you just said...its birth control, plan B, condoms and education.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobWrestledGod View Post
    Come on, birth control is damn cheap nowadays and Planned parenthood isn't the only one giving low cost birth control.
    How much purchasing of Birth Control have you done? When I was in college, my birth control would have cost me $500 Co-Pay at my college clinic but, when I went to Planned Parenthood, it cost me less than $100. Now what is $400 in the grand scheme of things for me? a couple of nights out, but for a woman on a fixed income with kids already? That is the difference between having the type of birth control she wants and not having it.

    (Today my healthcare covers it completely, Thanks Obama.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JacobWrestledGod View Post
    When it comes to Planned parenthood, it's simple : You see babies as dollars and cents, cost vs benefit. I see them as life with equal constitution rights as the mother who claims the baby is not allowed to live. Birth control is the way to go. But not abortions. US gives thousands of refugees refuge and then allow millions of babies to be aborted.
    So wait, you believe fetuses are babies but you also believe that Abortion should be legal? That is COLD. you believe in legal murder. I mean it is fine for me to believe that early abortion isnt murder (just because something has the potential to develop into human life doesnt mean it IS human life) but you? You believe it is state sponsored murder. You believe that fetus=The Mother. So you believe that a Woman should bring to term a child, endangering her life, her health, harming her body forever, putting her other children at risk.

    Doesn't matter what you think though. Abortion is a legal right in this country (thank God) and the Supreme Court has already shown a willingness to protect that right.

    Quote Originally Posted by JacobWrestledGod View Post
    Am I saying make abortion illegal? no, i am saying make abortion harder. Over here, our laws force the mother to go for ultrasound, view abortion videos, understand every single facets of how the baby dies, and also provide financial, social and adoption help alternatives before giving the consent form. if the person goes ahead, then it's their responsibility. Planned Parenthood is on the opposite spectrum.
    Why make it harder? To punish the mother? to increase the emotional suffering that a difficult choice already causes? What possible need does it serve to make an already traumatic situation more traumatic? Is it just to serve as a deterrent? Are you trying to make the process as horrible as possible so some women won't go through with it?

    That is fucked up.

    That is moralistic paternal bullshit. Women should be able to make medical decisions with their doctor without the government mandating what she is forced to watch. I cannot imagine forcing a rape victim to watch the ultrasound of the fetus her rapist forced into her. That is barbaric.


    Quote Originally Posted by JacobWrestledGod View Post
    People who say Planned Parenthood care beyond abortions is nonsense. They have ultrasound machine, at low cost ONLY FOR ABORTIONS. millions of dollars pumped into the system for the machines only for abortion purposes.

    This is WRONG. Abortion services accounted for only 3% of the services that Planned Parenthood provided in 2015. Many Planned Parenthood clinics do not provide abortions. The one I went to when I was in college did not have an abortion clinic (but you could still get the Pill). If the federal government defunded Planned Parenthood, the abortion clinics would remain open because those are already funded by private grants, donations and (in many cases) by state reimbursements for poorer patients. Instead what would get shut down are all the nonsurgical clinics that provide other medical and contraception services. So yeah it would be cancer screenings, contraception, doctor visits and STD tests that would end, not the abortions.

    Look at who Planned Parenthood serves. A Study from the University of Texas found that although only 23 of Texas’s 254 counties had a Planned Parenthood clinic before 2013 but those clinics served 60 percent of the state’s low-income women of childbearing age.

    But really, none of this matters in this thread because The House attempts to defund Planned Parenthood won't get 50 votes in the Senate (4 Senate Republicans have come out against it). This will be another thing Trump fails to do. EDIT: that was too harsh. In the past Trump has supported Planned Parenthood and talked about the good things it does. “Look, Planned Parenthood has done very good work for many, many—for millions of women,” - Donald Trump 2016. He probably sees his stance against Planned Parenthood as a political necessity not a deeply held belief. He probably isnt going to arm twist to get it done or stand by it if it is one of the things standing between him and TrumpCare.



    Oh and Slap, after rereading the original post. Trump did not defund Planned Parenthood in the US. What he did, was sign an executive order that bans U.S. funding for any international healthcare organizations that perform abortions or advocate for the legalization of abortion overseas, which stripped of Planned Parenthood's non-US funding. After Trump passed the order, it spurred other countries to make up the difference in a global abortion fund which will replace the funding. It seems that Planned Parenthood International may actually receive more money due to Trump's action than it received under Obama because of the backlash against Trump.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-13-2017 at 03:18 PM.

  19. #179
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    Here is something I have come to notice about abortion and men over the years.

    Men like to control everything. We like to control limiting a woman having an abortion, IF we get a girl pregnant that we don't want to be tied down to we want to make sure they DO get the abortion, and we don't want to pay for no woman's birth control, but you better believe if we want to sleep with them we always ask are they on birth control because we don't want to use a condom and we will risk an STD. It's not new though, men have been controlling of women for many millennia.

    We have entered a new era in human history, for the first time ever, when women are taking control of their right to reproduce and this freaks out men. It seems weird but I'll tell you why it freaks out men. Men, arrogantly, think we see the bigger picture. We like to think of ourselves as rational, level headed, and as an outside prospective. How the hell can a woman make decisions on reproduction, because they are too close to it. Of course they want their insurance to cover birth control, but that raises our premiums and why should our premiums raise when we don't need birth control. Women to us just don't get it, they don't see how their needs affect us, and we already have to deal with a nagging wife and now we have a nation full of nagging women telling us we should pay for their birth control. You are crazy.

    Undisputed part 8: The Rise of the AWA

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Face it you lost all credibility in this discussion when you didn't know the difference.
    No, I didn't, as it's completely irrelevant to my points at hand.

    anyways....

    Another travel ban cock blocked by another judge. How are we supposed to operate as a republic if everyting put out gets shut down.

    ICE Raids seem to be moving slow as well.

    and the Obamacare "replacement" is damn near just as fucking bad as Obamacare. If you're a liberal, you should fucking love it and shut the fuck up because in reality the working class is STILL getting fucked. Repeal and be done, fuck a replacement. I am not happy about this especially, but I'm not happy in general. Seems like all his pushes have hit snags.

    Dow is still rolling high as ever though which will boost the economy nicely.

    Planned Parenthood - take abortion out of the picture, it still should not be publically funded. They proved they can be privately funded with their idiotic donation push.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post
    No, I didn't, as it's completely irrelevant to my points at hand.

    anyways....

    Another travel ban cock blocked by another judge. How are we supposed to operate as a republic if everyting put out gets shut down.

    ICE Raids seem to be moving slow as well.

    and the Obamacare "replacement" is damn near just as fucking bad as Obamacare. If you're a liberal, you should fucking love it and shut the fuck up because in reality the working class is STILL getting fucked. Repeal and be done, fuck a replacement. I am not happy about this especially, but I'm not happy in general. Seems like all his pushes have hit snags.

    Dow is still rolling high as ever though which will boost the economy nicely.

    Planned Parenthood - take abortion out of the picture, it still should not be publically funded. They proved they can be privately funded with their idiotic donation push.
    We've operated very well for the last 230 years without travel bans, we'll be okay.

    As someone who knows a LOT of undocumented people, ICE Raids have been crazy. Trump is trying to break Obama's pace, and Obama deported more people than anyother US president in history. He deported more than Clinton in 8 years by the end of his 4th, and deported way more than George Bush.

    Obamacare repeal is a joke. The new bill is shitty as hell. Liberals don't want the working class to get fucked, see you by into this us verse them politics. We have an idea of what works and you have an idea of what works. It's not that one is hoping to screw over people. I personally would like single payer.

    Dow is still rolling high, has been since Obama was president, but who's counting.

    Planned Parenthood should be funded.

    Undisputed part 8: The Rise of the AWA

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    We've operated very well for the last 230 years without travel bans, we'll be okay.
    Really? So the restrictions that Obama and Clinton put in place didn't count?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life
    As someone who knows a LOT of undocumented people, ICE Raids have been crazy. Trump is trying to break Obama's pace, and Obama deported more people than anyother US president in history. He deported more than Clinton in 8 years by the end of his 4th, and deported way more than George Bush.
    well, that's a relief, even though the numbers come across weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life
    Obamacare repeal is a joke. The new bill is shitty as hell. Liberals don't want the working class to get fucked, see you by into this us verse them politics. We have an idea of what works and you have an idea of what works. It's not that one is hoping to screw over people. I personally would like single payer.
    I agree, the proposed replacement is shitty....as it's hardly better. Repeal it and be done with it. To take a page out of your book, we operated very well for the last 226 years without Obamacare, we'll be ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life
    Dow is still rolling high, has been since Obama was president, but who's counting.
    C'mon man, it went through the roof and never slowed down after Nov 8th. Fact of the matter is, people who invest are working class or were working class and built themselves up, and these people put Trump in office.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life
    Planned Parenthood should be funded.
    because why? It's doing fine being privately funded via donations.

  23. #183
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    Obama didn't have a travel ban. It was stricter restrictions on Iraq and those that were already on their way in were not stopped at the airport.

    Numbers came across weak because you can't get 11million in 8 years. And he focused on criminals, which there are not many unlike what conservative radio will tell you.

    Obamacare to me is incomplete. 230 years ago we got healthcare by trading chickens. We also did great without insurance companies. I say get rid of corporate healthcare, it's made it all worse.

    Under Obama, the stock market rose when he first got in as well. The difference is it didn't stop raising. It had dips, but if you expect a 4 year straight raise in the market then you are sorely mistaken.

    Because as 2Pac said...
    You know what makes me unhappy? When brothers make babies and leave a young mother to be a pappy
    And since we all came from a woman
    Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
    I wonder why we take from our women
    Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
    I think it's time to kill for our women
    Time to heal our women, be real to our women
    And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
    That will hate the ladies that make the babies
    And since a man can't make one
    He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one

    Undisputed part 8: The Rise of the AWA

  24. #184
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    Obama absolutely had a travel ban.

    Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

    Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
    Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
    Obamacare absolutely has devastated the middle class. Prior to what I do now with great benefits. I was paying 140$/m for healthcare in 2008. By 2014 I was paying $420/m. Premiums/Deductables are absolutely sky rocketing under the current system, never mind trying to book an appointment or go t the emergency room and have waits out the door. Im sorry but I do not understand how so many people people believe some should pay nothing for healthcare and others should pay out the ass for it in order to cover those that can't afford it.

    Meanwhile Slap is in a mental pretzel with himself talking about all the great things Trump has accomplished ....today he's talking about how all Trumps orders (now that he knows what an order is) are being denied. Quite the change of tone here.

    I wouldn't use 2pac as the standard of womens rights, I believe he also was quoted saying...


    No need to cry now, go wipe your tears be a woman
    Why you actin suprised? You saw the bullshit comin
    Fake hair, fake nails, fake eyes too
    So why you bound to fuck with fake guys too

    I never trust these hoes at all, fucking with them tramp ass sluts who Suppose to fall
    Since she played you for you money but the shit was cool
    Guess its true niggaz be bitches too
    You cant see how she worked you, all up in her skirt
    Now you looking like a jerk, cause she hurt you
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-18-2017 at 11:52 AM.

  25. #185
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    And yet Trump had to make a new travel ban. The Obama travel ban wasn't a travel ban. It was a temporary increase in security in response to a terrorist attempt on US soil. Basically some shit got through, the government closed up shop and people resumed traveling once shit got cleaned. Trump was just trying to have a straight up travel ban, keeping people from these countries out for good. It wasn't in response to anything. It was just because. That's actually why the courts held it up, because they argued that it was coming from discrimination not safety. The first judge was a Bush appointee.

    Obamacare is a disaster because it was bandaid put over a broken foot. The system is broken, before Obamacare healthcare was the number cause of bankruptcy. Now bankruptcy do to healthcare has dropped, though numbers are not truly known yet, and people report less stress over healthcare cost. BUT, everyone's healthcare cost have gone up, up, up, and the average person is feeling a huge squeeze do to increased healthcare cost just for insurance. The problem is the whole system, a system which people profit off sick people. They are praying everyone gets swine flu basically.

    2Pac was just because I felt my post above I wrote 3 days ago explained my position. Plus slap is a troll, I troll with the best of trolls. After all, I am friends with TO.

    Undisputed part 8: The Rise of the AWA

  26. #186
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    obamas was a ban its right in the language temporary or not lol. haven't read Trumps latest one but his first one very clearly stated a 90 day ban. 90 days is not permanent last I checked. Or was it 180 days? I could have very well misread that though but I was under the impression it was a temporary ban until further policies could be enforced in the venting process. I haven't read the latest one I've lost interested because both parties are beyond saving so I can't comment on it. I'd have to read the proposed ban again before commenting further I'd be shocked if it wasn't a temporary proposed ban

  27. #187
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    Just looking at the Trump one, the reason the judge gave was "disfavor Islam and give preference to Christianity". Basically, since Obama had a "ban" after a terrorist threat, it was seen as a needed review for the process. Since there was nothing lately to warrant a ban now, then it was looked at as discriminatory. The State of Washington is the party that filed the travel ban overturn, and this is what they said....

    1 That the executive order violates the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment by denying the equal protection of the laws
    2 That the executive order violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment by preferring one religion over another
    3 That the executive order violates the Fifth Amendment right to procedural due process
    4 That the executive order's discriminatory visa procedures violate the Immigration and Nationality Act
    5 That the denial of asylum and withholding of removal violate the Immigration and Nationality Act
    6 That the executive order violates federal statutory law (Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998, 8 U.S.C. § 1231,
    implementing the United Nations Convention against Torture (ratified by the U.S. in 1994))
    7 That the executive order violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act
    8 That the executive order is a procedural violation of the Administrative Procedure Act
    9 That the executive order is a substantive violation of the Administrative Procedure Act
    10 That the executive order violates the Tenth Amendment


    Now, as for both parties, both parties are just a hot mess. The Democrats and Republicans are both on the verge of collapse it seems and then the other party does something dumb to bring the one party back. Basically, these parties can't just die off because the other party hands them the nation. After 2008, you'd think the Republicans could never comeback, but the Democrats are such a party of fuck ups that they handed congress over to the Republicans after 2 years. Now the Republicans are doing EVERYTHING they can to give the nation back to the Democrats next year, but e-mails showed how bad of a party the Democrats really are. I wish we could get rid of both parties and go with multiple parties. Because on the right, you have Christians, Big Business, and working poor/rural, (along with racist but we'll ignore that) and on the left you have science, people of color, and unions/farmers, (along with socialist but we'll ignore that). None of those parties get along with others in their own political party. People of color tent to be really religious, Christians tend to look down on Big Business for not giving to the poor, working poor want to be in unions which big business hates, and rural people are not always farmers but they respect the farmer. Like, it's all one huge hot mess that two political parties can't possibly represent everyone.

    Undisputed part 8: The Rise of the AWA

  28. #188
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    Right but you said it was a permanent ban. It was actually a 120 day proposed ban. So I'm not sure why you are saying it was permant You also said Obama never had a ban he did, the reason for his ban is irrelevant it was a travel ban for certain people. I'm for a temporary ban personally but it shouldn't matter religious background all that should matter is the country of the native, at least until a stronger venting process can be put in place which I believe everyone is for. I'm don't have confidence the left can come up with one without being too naive and I don't believe the right can come up with one without going too extreme. But the one Trumps rolled out especially the first are a little too extreme imo

    I believe Ohio state would say some what recent events with refugee students would cause concern on this topic.

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Obamacare absolutely has devastated the middle class. Prior to what I do now with great benefits. I was paying 140$/m for healthcare in 2008. By 2014 I was paying $420/m. Premiums/Deductables are absolutely sky rocketing under the current system, never mind trying to book an appointment or go t the emergency room and have waits out the door. Im sorry but I do not understand how so many people people believe some should pay nothing for healthcare and others should pay out the ass for it in order to cover those that can't afford it.
    this x 1000

    I know people that went from shit insurance ($400 a month) to getting really fucked ($800) a month. I am currently lucky enought to work for a forbes 500 company but when Obamacare first took place I was paying $613 a month. Obamacare fucks the working class plain and simple.

    Mikey do you not agree Trump is getting cock blocked? I am do you agree the republican congress is letting him down?

    I don't have tupac lyrics to end this post

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    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post
    this x 1000

    I know people that went from shit insurance ($400 a month) to getting really fucked ($800) a month. I am currently lucky enought to work for a forbes 500 company but when Obamacare first took place I was paying $613 a month. Obamacare fucks the working class plain and simple.

    Mikey do you not agree Trump is getting cock blocked? I am do you agree the republican congress is letting him down?

    I don't have tupac lyrics to end this post
    Someone needs to pay for the needy tens of millions Irish sarah would like to import into America. It may as well be you two. I do not want to see any more bellyaching, cinch your belts in tighter, stop going out to eat, take less vacations (key west *couch cough) stop drinking alcohol, and most importantly stop enjoy any luxury in your life, because there are immigrants that NEED YOUR MONEY & NEED FREE HEALTH CARE.

  31. #191
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    Slap, 2 things.
    The reason the ICE raids have slowed down is because Trump doesn’t want to catch and release illegal immigrants. But if he holds them for longer than 6 months, then they get a bond hearing. The immigration courts have a backlog of cases meaning there are immigration hearings scheduled years out. If Trump started mass incarceration of immigrants, the backlog would get worse. Immigration judges and court staff are not exempt from the government hiring freeze that Trump put into place with an executive order. It makes the backlog worse. So even if ICE “catches” more immigrants, it doesn’t mean that it would lead to the deportation of more immigrants. It might lead to more illegal immigrants being released with legal status within the United States. Trump needs Congress to expand ICE, Border Protection and the immigration courts. He needs Democratic votes to do that.

    If we take abortion out of it, why shouldn’t Planned Parenthood be treated like every other clinic which provides healthcare, pharmaceuticals and doctor visits?

    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post

    Obama absolutely had a travel ban.

    Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

    Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
    Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).


    What are you talking about? Removing a country from the Visa Waiver Program is not banning them from the united states. It requires them to GET a Visa first. Under Obama, all of those people in that country were, at least in theory, allowed to travel to the United States as long as they got a visa first. Trump wanted to ban the visas.

    The Obama administration did conducted a review of the vetting procedures applied to citizens of Iraq, in 2011. The review only dealt with refugees and applicants for Special Immigrant Visas. During the review, the flow of Iraqi refugees slowed but never stopped. Refugees and iraqi citizens continued to be admitted to the United States during that review, and there was not a single month in which no Iraqis in either categories arrived here. There was no ban under the Obama Administration.


    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    obamas was a ban its right in the language temporary or not lol. haven't read Trumps latest one but his first one very clearly stated a 90 day ban. 90 days is not permanent last I checked. Or was it 180 days? I could have very well misread that though but I was under the impression it was a temporary ban until further policies could be enforced in the venting process. I haven't read the latest one I've lost interested because both parties are beyond saving so I can't comment on it. I'd have to read the proposed ban again before commenting further I'd be shocked if it wasn't a temporary proposed ban
    Trump wants to be able to put in a temporary ban which he has said could become a permanent ban. Trump's ban has been blocked by the courts for a number of reasons. The judges have ruled that these challenges have a likelihood of success. The challenges arent to the temporary nature but rather that the system that Trump slapped together (conditional waivers and such) violates the due process rights of travelers.

    It still wasnt a ban.

    On Obamacare, my healthcare went down when the law came into effect. It has gone up or down since then but never more than it was originally and it actually went down this year. So I cannot complain, but then again, I am young, i dont have kids, a wife or a gold plated plan. Honestly tho, I am not against getting a healthcare system like Sweden. The problem with the Republican's idea of healthcare doesnt make Healthcare less expensive, cover more people or give greater subsidies. I think Trumpcare is DOA.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-20-2017 at 01:56 PM.

  32. #192
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    If your healcare cost went down you are either poor or lying. I was a single guy in my mid Late 20s from 2008-14 making about 60 grand a year some years were better in the bar industry on top while getting my masters as a part time teacher so throw another 20k in.So no i didn't have a wife or kids or a gold plan yet my fees quadrupled. So I'm very curious how a par legal in Boston who I'm assuming at the least makes 50grand never mind her part time job as a bartender had insurance rates go down. You are lying somewhere orndoing something shady. Something doesn't add up there. When most middle class people if not all have had their insurance sky rocket.

    Trumps is a temporary ban it says it in the order. 120 days. You can twist it all you want it's a temporary ban that was actually denied. So the question is what are you talking about? Nothing of relevance because a permanent ban has never been proposed . Until they do you are arguing semantics just to argue.

    Obamas ban was still a ban. It prevented certain people from coming to the country it is word for word what it says. All the little outliers are irrelevant it was a ban on certain people of certain status. Again you are arguing semantics for the sake of arguing. "Travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel to the US" that is a ban on certain people.

    Here's the thing I don't even agree with Trumps proposed orders they are far to extreme and when you throw in the catholic element it's flat out unamarican. You are looking for an argument on semantics.
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-20-2017 at 02:30 PM.

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    If your healcare cost went down you are either poor or lying. I was a single guy in my mid Late 20s from 2008-14 making about 60 grand a year some years were better in the bar industry on top while getting my masters as a part time teacher so throw another 20k in.So no i didn't have a wife or kids or a gold plan yet my fees quadrupled. So I'm very curious how a par legal in Boston who I'm assuming at the least makes 50grand never mind her part time job as a bartender had insurance rates go down. You are lying somewhere orndoing something shady. Something doesn't add up there. When most middle class people if not all have had their insurance sky rocket.
    Not in Mass. If that helps. Havent lived in Mass since i went off to college.

    Silver plan, relatively high deductable had it go up in 2016 and actually had my premiums go down this year but my deductible is up and so is my out of pocket, so it's probably closer to wash.

    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Trumps is a temporary ban it says it in the order. 120 days. You can twist it all you want it's a temporary ban that was actually denied. So the question is what are you talking about? Nothing of relevance because a permanent ban has never been proposed . Until they do you are arguing semantics just to argue.

    Obamas ban was still a ban. It prevented certain people from coming to the country it is word for word what it says. All the little outliers are irrelevant it was a ban on certain people of certain status. Again you are arguing semantics for the sake of arguing. "Travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel to the US" that is a ban on certain people.

    Here's the thing I don't even agree with Trumps proposed orders they are far to extreme and when you throw in the catholic element it's flat out unamarican. You are looking for an argument on semantics.
    What are you talking about. Use details. Obama never banned a single group from entering the untied states. The move you quoted required people to get Visas. The "VWP" you quoted stands for Visa Waiver Program.

    According to Wikipedia "The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) is a program of the United States Government which allows citizens of specific countries to travel to the United States for tourism, business, or while in transit for up to 90 days without having to obtain a visa". By removing them from the Visa Waiver program, Obama made it so that people from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen had to obtain a visa. Is that a ban?


    What Obama did was require people to get a visa. It was never a ban on certain people. It was also not in an executive order. It was a bill signed into law.

  34. #194
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    Yes it is ban. Yes I know what the program is Sara, unlike you I do not need to google and wiki constantly to have a discussion and play it off as my own words. I also know its a bill and not an executive order never said it was an order once again the question is reversed on me and back to you what are YOU talking about, other than creating arguments out of thin air, the act is old, it doesnt work on me, maybe others not me, Im surprised you haven't learned this yet. The BILL (lol) was banning certain people from entering the country based on their circumstances and nationalities. The circumstances here are visas the nationalities are the countries listed. So some people are allowed to come here without visas under certain circumstances while others are not. Its a ban, a travel ban to be specific, liberals use the word restriction. You can sugar coat it to protect your liberal agenda but its a ban. One that I applauded Obama for at the time and one that didn't have an outcry because it wasn't full blown insane like the recent ones that are trying to be pushed.

    You are still arguing semantics here. It was a ban on certain people based on their status/circumstances. Simple as that get over it, its not a bad thing to call it what it is.

    Premiums are going up 22% this year, once again what are YOU talking about? Oh thats right you dont have to pay that 22%, tax dollars will and then the people that have private insurance that do not qualify depending on their state will have their rates hiked up. Yeah great system. It is spiraling out of control. In fact health insurance premiums are rising faster than worker's wages. This will catch up sooner or later. This is also impacting companies from hiring more people because they cannot afford to offer health insurance to more employees. You are not addressing the fact that for certain people that do not qualify for obamacare but are not offered insurgence through their work, Restaurant Industry people for example the very people you were saying deserve more money in another thread are paying out the ass for health insurance. they do not qualify for GVT insurance because they make a good living. Again I went from paying 1400$ or what ever it was to over 5k a year. Care to explain to me how that is fair?
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-20-2017 at 07:02 PM.

  35. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Yes it is ban. Yes I know what the program is Sara, unlike you I do not need to google and wiki constantly to have a discussion and play it off as my own words. I also know its a bill and not an executive order never said it was an order once again they question is reversed on me and back to you what are you talking about, other than creating arguments out of thin air, the act is old, it doesnt work on me, maybe others not me, Im surprised you haven't learned this yet. The BILL (lol) was banning certain people from entering the country based on their circumstances and nationalities. The circumstances here are visas the nationalities are the countries listed. So some people are allowed to come here without visas under certain circumstances while others are not. Its a ban. You can sugar coat it for to protect your liberal agenda but its a ban. One that I applauded Obama for at the time and one that didn't have an outcry because it was full blown insane the the recent ones that are trying to be pushed.

    You are still arguing semantics here. It was a ban on certain people based on their status/circumstances. Simple as that get over it.
    I asked you what you were talking about was because you were vague when you talked about the "ban". It was either Obama requiring visas and ending the "pre-clearance" for certain countries or it was when, in 2011, Obama changed the system to vet some Iraqi visa applicants and revetted a lot of applicants. Both are wrong. Neither were a ban. You were just super vague.

    I cant believe we are actually having this conversation. So lets try to do this slow and detailed. It is not a ban. It does not prevent anyone from traveling to the United States with a VISA. The Visa Waiver Program did not allow people to travel to the US who weren't eligible for a visa. So by removing the presumption of eligibility, Obama required Iraqis to go through a more extensive process, he did not prevent a single iraqi do to a wide ranging circumstance. It is not a ban. Requiring a visa does not prevent anyone from coming to America. The reasons for travel are the same under the waiver program as under the visa. Name one thing that travel under the visa waiver program allows that wouldn't be allowed under a normal visa?


    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    The BILL (lol) was banning certain people from entering the country based on their circumstances and nationalities.
    Wrong. Zero people were banned from entering the country that were eligible before. It just required getting a visa before traveling to the United States. It was procedural in nature. It requires a higher level of vetting, sure, but it does not block anyone for any reason. Not a ban. Not even close to a ban.

    Define a ban.

    You either don't know what you are talking about or don't know how a visa works.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-20-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  36. #196
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    If some people are allowed in this country without visas and other are not allowed into the country with out visas based on their nationality that is technically a ban. Its as simple as that. You are banning a certain group of people from participating in a program offered to others because of their nationality. Like I said you are liberal and you are hiding under the term restriction because that bill does not fit your agenda. He also enforced the same exact policy on Cuban refugees ending the wet foot dry foot policy which makes sense based on current relations with Cuba, but similar to the early days of Trumps order, left 1000s of Cubans heading to the US stranded, not a word from you liberals on that. Heres why I consider it a ban. Try getting a visa to the US as a refugee from the middle east. Its about as easy as it was for Cubans to do so hence for years the US allowed Cuban refugees to enter without visas and became citizens after a year. When you take the Visa waiver away (which I dont have problem with) a majority of these people are banned because of the difficulty of gaining a visa.

    So yeah sure..."Oh we are not banning you, you just can't do what others do unless you get this, but thats not a big deal, that little thing you need to get is SUPER easy to get". Because all these refugees just need to know what UNHCR is, then they need to have access to a US embassy if UNHCR is not available to you, then just fill out a packet. Yeah walk in the park. So in conclusion if some people can take part in a program and others cannot, technically that is a ban. And because this program involves travel, its a travel ban. Typical liberals hiding under semantics in language.
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-20-2017 at 08:36 PM.

  37. #197
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    If some people are allowed in this country without visas and other are not allowed into the country with out visas based on their nationality that is technically a ban. Its as simple as that. You are banning a certain group of people from participating in a program offered to others because of their nationality. Like I said you are liberal and you are hiding under the term restriction because that bill does not fit your agenda. He also enforced the same exact policy on Cuban refugees ending the wet foot dry foot policy which makes sense based on current relations with Cuba, but similar to the early days of Trumps order, left 1000s of Cubans heading to the US stranded, not a word from you liberals on that. Heres why I consider it a ban. Try getting a visa to the US as a refugee from the middle east. Its about as easy as it was for Cubans to do so hence for years the US allowed Cuban refugees to enter without visas and became citizens after a year. When you take the Visa waiver away (which I dont have problem with) a majority of these people are banned because of the difficulty of gaining a visa.

    So yeah sure..."Oh we are not banning you, you just can't do what others do unless you get this, but thats not a big deal, that little thing you need to get is SUPER easy to get". Because all these refugees just need to know what UNHCR is, then they need to have access to a US embassy if UNHCR is not available to you, then just fill out a packet. Yeah walk in the park. So in conclusion if some people can take part in a program and others cannot, technically that is a ban. And because this program involves travel, its a travel ban. Typical liberals hiding under semantics in language.
    Oh so the answer is that you don't understand what a Visa is. Got it.

    It is really hard getting CERTAIN kinds of Visas from middle eastern countries. To get a short term tourist/business visa (B-1/B-2) is easy and i think free. It requires more paperwork, it requires an interview but I do not think any travel allowed under a B visa is not allowed under the Visa Waiver program. I do not believe it excludes any circumstances or groups from entering the US. What sort of travel is eligible under the visa waiver program but banned under a B-1/B-2 visa? If they are banned, which group is eligible to travel under the visa waiver program but would then be banned under the visa process?

    Do you want to know how it isnt a ban? More Iraqis traveled from Iraq to the US for tourism/business in 2016 than in 2014. That means more Iraqis traveled to the US after the "ban" than before.

    I am pretty sure the issue of getting legal visas from Cuban citizens had more to do with laws on the books than visa issues.

    You didnt answer the important question.

  38. #198
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    Ill edit out the first half of this post, despite it not being personal info and all info you have shard publicly about yourself on this forum, Im not sure what the rules are there, so Ill play it safe. Despite me questioning exactly where you live now since your historical time line and work history isn't adding up.


    Visa Waiver Program: Deals with Travel to the United States.

    Are the listed countries in the bill Banned from taking part in the program: Yes.

    Its quite simple when you break it down.
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-20-2017 at 10:21 PM.

  39. #199
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    Visa Waiver Program: Deals with Travel to the United States.

    Are the listed countries in the bill Banned from taking part in the program: Yes.

    Its quite simple when you break it down.
    But not being part of the program doesnt ban a citizen from any country not in the program from entering the United States in any way.

    What sort of travel is eligible under the visa waiver program but banned under a B-1/B-2 visa?

    I usually dont talk exactly where i live/work now cuz you know, privacy, but PM me.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-20-2017 at 10:38 PM.

  40. #200
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    I never said it banned them in any way. I said it banned certain groups of people based on their circumstances which it does. If you do not have a visa being from a certain country you are banned to travel here. That is technically a travel ban based on circumstances I've said this from the start.

    I personally do not care where you live or who you are? I edited out the post because the rules here are not clear about repeating user info that they provided publically about themselves in past threads in other words everything I said is from posts you put out there about yourself that are all still available to look up, it's all information that you put out there on this site usually to make an argument in your favor. But when you put it all together none of it adds up and a lot of it conflicts with each other. That's exactly what I did I put everything you have said in the past and try to piece it chronologically and it isn't possible. Like I said I'm a fan of yours but it seems like you say stuff about yourself to strengthen your arguments and I've been paying closer attention and I'm not buying a lot of the stuff you are saying now because it just doesn't add up since we are both from the same area and have ties to the same industries.
    Last edited by American Mikey P; 03-20-2017 at 11:16 PM.

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