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Thread: The Chris Jericho Thread

  1. #41
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    On the topic of wrestlers doing these sorts of things, the legendary Verne Gagne killed a 97 year old resident with whom he had a fight in the last few years of his life. There were no criminal charges, proceedings or anything, nothing was done to Verne. Why? It was ruled a homicide, but because Verne had severe mental degenerative diseases, it was concluded that he was not even able to grasp what was going on or what he had done, nor was there any intentionality. The authorities refused to do anything to Verne, aside from warning people to be more careful around him. That's how criminal law in the really-existing world actually works, contrary to Mikey's childish moral rants where the only categories of morality that exist are good people and exaggerated monsters.
    Last edited by Allystare; 01-05-2018 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    All I said was itís not a good look for Jericho lol... which has caused you people to cal me a piece of shit ... an asshole ... and whatever other names you have called me. I am more Calling out fans from the front page not Jericho ... and guess what there are multiple
    People in this thread that stated they agree with me 100%. Iíll be dead honest your hero is a murderer and the internet wrestling community that had eaten the likes of reigns Cena etc alive for years canít take it when The name Benoit is brought up in a negative light. Truth hurts. But I call it how I see it.

    And Steve Austin should absolutely be banned from the WWE in my opinion from an apearence stand point unfortunately he gets a pass because he did it in 2003 but guess what if that happened today heís be fired and banned . Steve Austin scum bag.

    If calling women beaters and murderers scums bags makes me a narcissist moral asshole so be it. No sweat off my back what you people think of me I still wake up and go to work the next day.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    I second those Austin sentiments. Guy is scum for beating his wife, and according to Debra there were historical incidents of it that we're not only barely reported but even covered up by WWE, if I recall rightly.

    Same with Benoit - he's scum for what he did to his wife and kid. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate that he was a good wrestler.

    But in both cases I'm withdrawn from the situation by not knowing the person. I can well imagine that if you knew them there's a huge shade of grey around it.

  4. #44
    Steve Austin should absolutely not be banned from appearing in WWE. What he did was absolutely disgusting and it should be included in his overall legacy the same way Hulk Hogan's fiasco should be included in his. But unless there's some info out there that we don't know about Austin did change for the better, and while he shouldn't get a standing ovation for doing the obvious right thing it should also be acknowledged that he did improve as a person and should be given a second chance. You can't have it both ways; if, for example, Mikey wants Hogan to be forgiven for his incident on the basis that he's no longer a racist, wasn't a racist or whatever it was, you can't then say that Austin doesn't deserve forgiveness when there's no evidence of a repeat offense in the years since.

    As for this Benoit/Jericho thing, I don't see the big deal. Jericho has repeatedly condemned what Benoit did over the years; all you need to do is listen to the podcasts he's done with Nancy's sister and Meltzer to hear that. That doesn't mean Jericho can just shut off all those memories he has of Benoit over the years; hell Nancy's sister can't, as I seem to recall her and Jericho laughing over several memories they had of Benoit during that same podcast. It be one thing if Jericho thought highly of what Benoit did during that final weekend, but seeing as we know that isn't the case and that this is just him paying tribute to the friend he knew and not the monster he became, I don't find any fault in what he did. So basically what everyone else has been saying.

    In other Jericho news, how about those last two shows?! Hell of a job by him in that Omega match (it may have been his best match ever imo) and now he'll have a chance to top it with the Naito match, whenever that is taking place.


  5. #45
    Senior Member American Mikey P's Avatar
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    When did I ever say Hulk Hogan should be forgiven? I have never said that. Do I actually think what Hogan said compared to what Austin or Benoit did is remotely the same thing....no.

    In fact I believe I am quoted somewhere maybe the forum or the comment section saying I have no issue with the WWE's stand on Hogan, I dont blame them in this climate we live in today. What I have issue is the WWE's stand on Austin and the Ultimate Warrior. Ultimate Warrior is an actual bigot, you tube him it is easy to find. And Austin not only beat the snot out of Debra he beat the snot out of his prior wife or GF I believe too. So if the WWE is going to associate themselves with Austin and have the Warrior be an actual award for courage and bravery (Lol) then Hulk Hogan should be allowed back into the fold. There is a difference there. I also do not believe Hogan's and Warriors words are actually as bad as assaulting and killing people. Are their words disturbing, untatsteful, hateful absolutely....people say stupid stuff all the time, Im sure every single one of us has said something stupid at one point or another. But how many of us have actually assaulted someone weaker than us, put them in the hospital, put them in fear of their life...killed them... you know actually commit crimes....I'd like to think none of us.

    Again I am fine with the WWE's current stand on Hogan especially in the current political climate completely understand it, if it was my company Id probably do the same thing, what Im not fine with is the WWE parading Steve Austin and Ric Flair around like gods once or twice a year after how they treat women Austin beats them, I believe Flair has had a history of it could be wrong, I know certainly he loves to sexually harass them like he did to the flight attendant by whipping out his junk..... but that is just the boys being the boys right.....

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Mikey P View Post
    All I said was it’s not a good look for Jericho lol... which has caused you people to cal me a piece of shit ... an asshole ... and whatever other names you have called me. I am more Calling out fans from the front page not Jericho ... and guess what there are multiple
    People in this thread that stated they agree with me 100%. I’ll be dead honest your hero is a murderer and the internet wrestling community that had eaten the likes of reigns Cena etc alive for years can’t take it when The name Benoit is brought up in a negative light. Truth hurts. But I call it how I see it.

    And Steve Austin should absolutely be banned from the WWE in my opinion from an apearence stand point unfortunately he gets a pass because he did it in 2003 but guess what if that happened today he’s be fired and banned . Steve Austin scum bag.

    If calling women beaters and murderers scums bags makes me a narcissist moral asshole so be it. No sweat off my back what you people think of me I still wake up and go to work the next day.
    You're a narcissist because you insist on simplifying in a Manichean way what was a very complicated and dark situation, just so you can play armchair moralist and score cheap debate points about Roman fucking Reigns in a conversation about a complicated tragedy that involved issues such as steroid abuse, roid rage, severe mental health issues, and a double-murder suicide of course. Because that's the fucking appropriate time and context for you to rage about Roman Reigns haters, of course. Grow the fuck up. That isn't even to mention the buffoonish sense of entitlement you have whereby you think you're a better judge of the situation than Chris Jericho who has known Benoit and his family for over 30 years, in an intimate fashion, and was actually there experiencing all of this first hand, and was part of the process for the family gaining closure. As if somehow you have some great penetrating insight that the people involved need to heed. Your entire series of posts in this thread is nothing but a disgracefully embarrassing performance.

    So let's be clear about that before you now try to pretend as if you're somehow the victim, when in reality, you're a petty moralist preening on about your self-righteousness in the most inappropriate ways without a sense of empathy or understanding of the issues involved.

    And Debra herself repeatedly stated that she believed that Austin assaulted her because of roid rage in combination with alcohol, and that she showed up at WWE events with bruises and injuries, and everyone just turned the other way and pretended as if nothing happened because he was Steve Austin. Perhaps you should consider and examine some of these factors, and the role of the WWE and Vince in particular in fostering an environment of drugs, steroids abuse, and a relentless wrestling schedule that produced these sorts of results countless times, with several premature deaths of dozens of wrestlers stemming from enlarged hearts and steroid abuse, from all the way in the mid 80s to 2007 when the negative publicity from the Benoit tragedy forced their hands.

    With regards to Austin, it's clear that he's paid off his debt to society, he did his community service, and weened himself off of steroids, and has had no issues since then. It could be argued he could have been penalized more severely by the court, but that's debatable. Debra was of course completely right to leave him, and the real victim, but regardless, he reformed himself and became a decent person. Mental health issues and roid rage are a little something called 'mitigating circumstances' or 'extenuating circumstances' in these sorts of situations. Perhaps once you familiarize yourself with the very basics of criminal law and the morality of punishment, perhaps you can return and have a proper discussion.
    Last edited by Allystare; 01-06-2018 at 04:57 AM.

  7. #47
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    All right gentlemen, I think we need to try and keep this a bit more civil from this point on. And if we can't debate the Benoit issue without targeting each other, I suggest moving on to the subject Cult Icon raided at the end of his post. You have the Omega match, and potential Naito match, as alternatives.

  8. #48
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    You're right, it *has* gotten heated, I'll back down, and apologize somewhat for the tone, though not the content.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyone else find it bemusing that Jericho was treated as a major star/legend in NJPW and they were able to do major business with him, with a larger Dome attendance than many years, high interest, and so on, meanwhile in the WWE he's always, with some exceptions, sort of treated like a so-so B- comedy legend, rather than on par with guys like Taker or Trips or Shawn. I'm not saying Jericho is necessarily of the same stature as Taker, because he isn't, but he is capable of being sort of like a Shawn-type legend who has good matches.

  9. #49
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    I think there's more of a respect in Japan for wrestling stars than elsewhere.. plus, since they can't rely on promos to get someone over, you have to have characters that you want to make you money have a physical impact and then you have to pay it off in the ring. In WWE, you can do comedy skits and the list of Jericho and your actual matches don't really matter as much.. Although i do think Jericho could be treated in a way that you could build dream matches around.. He's one of the few left who can actually still go at a decent level.

  10. #50
    Senior Member SirSam's Avatar
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    I think his utility value hurts him a lot, he can put on a compelling feaud that doesn't simply rely on the in built prestige of a Mania match. I'd say his willingness to get involved on a weekly level and put over younger talent also hurts him so he ends up getting put down to the same level as the weekly wrestlers as opposed to the Blockbuster ones like Taker & Triple H who only show up for the biggest moments.

  11. #51
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    Making the personal choice of doing steroids and drinking alcohol isnít an excuse for beating women and killing people. Sorry that is not how life works

  12. #52
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    Is reading not your fucking strong suit?

    Prime said to drop the subject and was far more lenient than I'd have been in deleting your previous post. Chill, dude. Respect the change of subject. Otherwise disciplinary action will follow.

  13. #53
    Something something this thread needs to be moved to the Japan section.

    Something.



  14. #54
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    Fair enough. He seems to be staying there. I might move this back if he does start working outside of Japan, though.

  15. #55
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    AXS tv on Verizon Fios broadcasts NJPW, and last night they had Wrestle Kingdom on last night. Great match between Omega and Jericho. It is amazing that Jericho at 47 can still go as well as he can.

  16. #56
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Did the plunder involves help Jericho? I'm leaning on the side that it did, and that he might not be able to go for a workrate star chasing kind of Omega match that Okada or Naito can.

    I'm really interested to see what shape Naito Vs Jericho takes.

  17. #57
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    I think it goes the same way as the Omega match did. I think we have to give Jericho credit for not trying to work a New Japan style main event while also working his ass off. Shows that he knows he has limitations.

    I really enjoyed the Omega match but you shave 5 mins off, its even better. They had an issue doing the blade job that bogged down the match.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    I think it goes the same way as the Omega match did. I think we have to give Jericho credit for not trying to work a New Japan style main event while also working his ass off. Shows that he knows he has limitations.
    This, absolutely. He's still a GREAT performer, and now that he's working around his limitations instead of against them that's more apparent than ever.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    So you guys are thinking Naito Vs Jericho goes with a No DQ stip as well?

  20. #60
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    If not, the rules will be relaxed. I mean you rarely get DQs in New Japan anyway even with Suzuki Gun swinging around chairs... and I don't think Jericho wants to wrestle a 25 min plus match mostly in the ring, its not his strength...

  21. #61
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    I was listening to his post match podcast with Omega, which is a fascinating listen btw, and they said that it was originally going to be a more technical 'Okada/Omega' style match (their words) but as the feud evolved they realised it had to be something different so they adapted it to what they go in the ring. Apparently a lot of it was just worked out on the fly too which is amazing because it is such a characterful match. I've watched it a few times now and just wrote s big ol' column about it and despite the chaotic nature of it the whole thing is very well constructed.

    I imagine given the nature of the attack on Naito and the pull apart brawl that followed it will get a similar stipulation. I love this bitter, jealous and vengeful character Jericho has constructed for this run. It is the perfect foil for these great technicians.

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