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Thread: Bray Wyatt

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    I hate to repeat my post, but this disputes nothing I wrote. Sure, it could work if Bray was rebuilt. But that tweet, if taken the way you are interpreting it, is not about waiting until then, it's about an immediate impact.

    You're jumping on the slightest piece of circumstantial evidence. You've got nothing. Trust my debating win/loss record - this isn't about Sting.
    I wasn't disputing, I was giving you a scenario/possibility on how/why Wyatt could face Sting. When he most likely won't.

  2. #82
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    As long as you agree it most likely won't happen. But jumping to conclusions that the scorpion clearly means Sting is fucking ridiculous.

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    The rumors that the Wyatts may be splitting up, that Bray might turn face and Luke Harper is going singles, and the unified Wyatt Clan is a thing of the past are just such a perfect example of the ineptitude of the Creative department.

    After roughly 14 months, the WWE is plum out of ideas for this group? How can this be? It certainly isn't the fault of the workers, all 3 of whom have played their roles masterfully.

    Talk about a very promising stable that most fans had no problem "fantasy booking" into a dozen different angles, yet the WWE itself, according to rumor, has opted to give up on them so prematurely it is mind-numbing.

    Here's hoping I'm jumping the gun with these complaints, but if the WWE does split up the group in 2014, I'm calling the Wyatt Saga one of the biggest Creative bungles of the past 5 years.

  4. #84
    I hate to be that guy but if the WWE is actually going to break up the Wyatts (a terrible decision in my book), it seems like further evidence that the Cena feud was a massive catalyst. And look, I'm not blaming Cena at all; I don't think he's backstage asking to go over wrestlers and then have their entire momentum cut out from under them. But it's pretty clear at this point that if you're an up and coming guy who feuds with Cena, the booking team is going to destroy you once it's over. The Nexus, Ryback, Sandow and now the Wyatts (and I could argue for more guys) have all feuded with Cena and then watched their momentum sink afterwards because the creative team had no idea what to do with them. That's a problem the WWE needs to address, because there's no reason for creative to have nothing (or to have had nothing) for a group that has too much potential left to be broken up now.


  5. #85
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    See, I don't see the feud with Cena as that. I see the break up as creative not having a clue what to do with interesting characters, period. It almost feels like when they have nothing else to do with them, they throw them to Cena just to see if it sticks and bury the talent. The best example is Ryback. Ryback was a HUGE face, and then he turned heel just to get beat by Cena. That's creative not having a clue on how to do their job. Nexus was different, you knew when they came in they'd be broken up to make individual stars, and Sandow I think is similar to Ryback.

    When you see someone who has not been on the roster for more than a year, maybe 2 years, get hot shotted to go against Cena, the top guy, that's a BAD thing. No matter how loud the smarks cry that we need new faces in the main event scene, those new faces should NOT be people in their first year. In the case of the Wyatts, before Cena you had to have slowly build them up. Bray was staggering because the Family got handed by Daniel Bryan. So when they go against Cena, unless that feud was going to result in a Cena heel turn, Wyatt should have been in that position. If Bryan could handle the family, the Super Cena would cut through them like a hot butter knife. My hope was that Cena did turn heel. But when he didn't, then it was a complete waste.

    Right now I feel there is no direction on the main show, there is no development of mid-card guys to move up to the main event spot. Idealistically, The Wyatt Family would have gone over some veteran face wrestlers, and they would build up the Wyatt Family to these huge monsters in which Luke Harper would rise out and become a star eventually. After all, Harper was one of the best big men in the Indy scene for a very long time. He is so good, I'm surprised he wasn't signed by the WWE 10 years ago.

    But I don't blame Cena is the Wyatts break, I don't blame his character or I don't even blame his character for existing. The reality is that you will always have a top guy, if it was Bruno Sammartino, Pedro Morales, Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, the Rock, Brock Lesnar or John Cena. These characters are critical to the show, even in the old days every territory had a Jerry Lawler, Fritz Von Erich, Vern Gagne, Harley Race, Funk Brothers main eventer at the top to sell tickets. So I know everyone is, well if they didn't put them with Cena. But Cena has to exist, Cena has ALWAYS existed for as long as wrestling was a work. The problem is the creative team pushing new talent to the top spot right away in an act of desperation when they have no direction at all. Hell, they don't even have direction for Cena, as over the last 9 years I feel like he has just existed and been at the top of the card waiting to fight Randy Orton again.

    Has Vince McMahon Lost Confidence in Roman Reigns.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I hate to be that guy but if the WWE is actually going to break up the Wyatts (a terrible decision in my book), it seems like further evidence that the Cena feud was a massive catalyst. And look, I'm not blaming Cena at all; I don't think he's backstage asking to go over wrestlers and then have their entire momentum cut out from under them. But it's pretty clear at this point that if you're an up and coming guy who feuds with Cena, the booking team is going to destroy you once it's over. The Nexus, Ryback, Sandow and now the Wyatts (and I could argue for more guys) have all feuded with Cena and then watched their momentum sink afterwards because the creative team had no idea what to do with them. That's a problem the WWE needs to address, because there's no reason for creative to have nothing (or to have had nothing) for a group that has too much potential left to be broken up now.
    It'sm ore that Creative has a hard time booking someone to lose. It doesn't matter if it's John Cena at all; how often does someone lose a feud in WWE and end up still having momentum to work with? There are too few examples of someone losing, and still having credibility. Jack Swagger, of all people, seem to be the only one who can say that with his recent feud with Rusev still has some possible heat to work with. How many others can say the same thing in 2014? The only time it really happens is when the stars has enough credibility from before the feud to carry over, meaning main event guys can suffer the losses and still move forward. Consider how credible Kane still is, despite him having a record of 4-152 in the last 2 years. I'm not saying he can win the WWE Title tomorrow, but if The Authority wanted to piss off Dolph or Sheamus tomorrow, and send out Kane to punish them, we could logically see a new champion without any complaints about the champion not having credibility.

    It's a midcard issue more than anything. And while I want to blame WWE creative, I don't think it's something I have the right to complain about. How many other feds and promotions have been able to book losers to succeed after their major losses? I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's incredibly difficult. It would be doubly difficult in WWE with all the talent on their roster.

    Consider how it helped Jack Swagger to disappear for a few months before returning with Zeb Colter in 2013? Just the time away after a disastrous run since losing the World Title on Smackdown (and I would argue since he left ECW) helped rebuild him in some way. It wasn't a perfect return, but the losing streak was not fresh in our minds, and there was something WWE could work with. He belonged in the mix with Del Rio and Ziggler, which was nothing something that could be said just 8 months earlier.

    If anything, what they are doing with the Wyatts might be the best idea, and something they should do more often. It's also something TNA does that I wish WWE would copy. If someone is without momentum and credibility, but you know you want to work with him down the line, the answer is to take him off TV temporarily (or create another brand split, but that's a different discussion). Bray Wyatt, along with Rowan and Harper, could even return to NXT for a couple of months. Have them chase someone like Sami Zayn, or The Ascension. NXT stars that are essentially the NXT version of WWE's main event guys who can suffer a loss without killing the rolls they are on. Wyatt can be dominant for the most part, and then when the story is over, WWE can bring him back with something fresh to do.

    That's just an example, because refocusing Bray's attention on promoting Luke Harper also works. It keeps Bray around, without giving him too many downfalls for the fans to remember. Back to a Roddy Piper role, managing Bob Orton Jr more than competing, being a true antagonist who doesn't get in the ring near often enough.

    But to blame Cena or the booking around Cena is short sighted. It would have been the same had Bray lost to Sheamus, or Roman Reigns, or Dolph Ziggler. The key to booking anyone strong after a big loss is to rebound and get them back on track, and that means more than a forgettable feud with Chris Jericho. The initial return was tremendous, but it flaked after that. Had the angle been presented in a stronger light, those wins on PPV would have meant more. But by treating the angle with Jericho as a midcard feud and with less attention from creative than the Bella drama or Ambrose vs Rollins, the perception to the audience was that this feud did not matter in the grand scheme of things. That has so little to do with the loss to Cena, and much more to do with booking of a loss in general.

  7. #87
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    So with the rumor o the Wyatt Family getting a new member, who do you suppose it will be?

    The first obvious choice is Bo Dallas.

    An NXT call up?

  8. #88
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    Bull Dempsey?

  9. #89
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    Bo is a tough one because outside of a tag run back in FCW, I don't think that they've really acknowledged that they're brothers.

    Bull was my first thought, too, if they're going to keep with the big-ish and bearded look.

  10. #90
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    I'm going with the guy that has been tweeting vaguely about his problems and deleting them....Jack Swagger.

    Repackaging could do that guy some good, and unlike a call-up can hold his own in such a big feud. A lot of people wouldn't see it coming either.

    Plus with the right situation you can have him un-brainwashed and pair him back with Zeb and have him feud with Wyatt later on (I mean like months from now)

    ...and for my super long-shot choice: Marcus Louis. He has the look of a crazy-ass wildcard and would creep the kids out, plus looks like he would follow someone like Wyatt. He just doesn't have the experience for something like this tho.

  11. #91
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    How about Baron Corbin?

  12. #92
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    Corbin is 2 years away from being ready for the main roster. Swagger is the most likely i would think. Bray as his mouth piece and just gives Swagger (who is very talented) some fresh appeal.

  13. #93
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    I was just wondering, is there any way that Bray Wyatt can become a face character? His character is that of a cult leader who now sees himself as the new face of fear. How can he become a face?

    Mankind is a similar character but it took the interview with JR and the 3 faces of Foley and the bedpan to the head of Vince for Mankind to change. I do not see that type of change or Bray.

    So how could Bray ever turn face?

  14. #94
    I think they need to worry about giving Bray a feud to win and getting his momentum back before they focus on a face turn.


  15. #95
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    Undertaker has been a babyface. He just started doing his Undertaker stuff to heels instead of babyfaces.

    Bray's time to turn baby was a year or so ago when he was getting his hottest. At this point, like Cult said, he needs a solid win or two before they even consider it.

    I'd have him squash midcard people on Raw and Smackdown for a few weeks in completely one-sided contests until they decide what's next for him as a single. He really should be brutalizing guys, I'm talking beating them and then continuing to kill them after the bell, and then handing their carcasses to his family.

    If they're not going to do something to hugely strengthen him than maybe position him as a manager for the Family for a few months and then when he steps back in to the ring after someone at Mania his losses will be far enough in the rear view mirror that he can move on.

    EDIT: A combination might be the way to go. I'd almost want to see Bray vs Brock at Mania. Have him murder some midcarders for the mon of December and then pull him from the ring. Have him manage the Family and turn them against Brock. At this point, four-on-one might be what it takes for someone on the roster to touch Brock.

    Then you can spend three months having Brock struggle to get through the Family. Do something at The Rumble similar to what they did with Big Show a few years ago, but have Brock be the one that's destroyed. Then they can basically spend three months with Brock going through Bray's heaters. They don't need to be in matches (maybe Harper vs Brock at EC), he can take them out in angles and whatnot and you slowly whiddle them down to just Bray vs Brock at Mania.

    I know that it's another loss for Bray, but if he can take Brock absolutely to his limit and win convincingly in his next feud, it'll elevate the whole family.

    Plus, four-on-one is a good way to get Brock sympathy and the change of him having to attack from behind to take out Wyatt Family members is completely different from anything we've seen from Brock to this point.
    Last edited by Team Farrell; 11-28-2015 at 09:28 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Undertaker has been a babyface. He just started doing his Undertaker stuff to heels instead of babyfaces.

    Bray's time to turn baby was a year or so ago when he was getting his hottest. At this point, like Cult said, he needs a solid win or two before they even consider it.

    I'd have him squash midcard people on Raw and Smackdown for a few weeks in completely one-sided contests until they decide what's next for him as a single. He really should be brutalizing guys, I'm talking beating them and then continuing to kill them after the bell, and then handing their carcasses to his family.

    If they're not going to do something to hugely strengthen him than maybe position him as a manager for the Family for a few months and then when he steps back in to the ring after someone at Mania his losses will be far enough in the rear view mirror that he can move on.

    EDIT: A combination might be the way to go. I'd almost want to see Bray vs Brock at Mania. Have him murder some midcarders for the mon of December and then pull him from the ring. Have him manage the Family and turn them against Brock. At this point, four-on-one might be what it takes for someone on the roster to touch Brock.

    Then you can spend three months having Brock struggle to get through the Family. Do something at The Rumble similar to what they did with Big Show a few years ago, but have Brock be the one that's destroyed. Then they can basically spend three months with Brock going through Bray's heaters. They don't need to be in matches (maybe Harper vs Brock at EC), he can take them out in angles and whatnot and you slowly whiddle them down to just Bray vs Brock at Mania.

    I know that it's another loss for Bray, but if he can take Brock absolutely to his limit and win convincingly in his next feud, it'll elevate the whole family.

    Plus, four-on-one is a good way to get Brock sympathy and the change of him having to attack from behind to take out Wyatt Family members is completely different from anything we've seen from Brock to this point.
    A loss to Brock won't elevate anyone in the Family, least of all Bray. At some point Coach, people are going to stop taking the Family seriously if they can never go over anyone not named Dean Ambrose or Ryback. Hell, you could make the argument that no one takes them seriously right now. Unless he were to go over Lesnar (which, let's be honest, he should if they were in a program. It's not like a loss will kill Brock), that feud does nothing for him. Really, I'm not sure any feud does anything for Bray at this point.

    I'll be blunt; I don't see WWE getting it right with this guy. You know how there's always one or two dudes that always look like they're going to be top stars, only they fall short for a variety of reasons and never end up making it? Bray strikes me as one of those guys. He should arguably be the top heel in the company right now, and instead he's never quite had the same momentum since his feud with Cena, all while WWE has failed to put the pieces back together. Unless they do a long term rebuild, I could see it just not working. Which would be shocking considering Bray's ability, but stranger things have happened.


  17. #97
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    Well you can't make Bray face anytime soon....because he'll get cheered more than Roman.

    After Mania tho I would like to see it because the list of opponents would be fun.

    V Barrett
    V New Day
    V Henry
    V The Authority
    V Owens

    ....all are feuds I would be down to see. Come to think of it if Wyatts became face soon you could book

    Wyatt Family V Sheamus,Barrett,Authority Goon 3 & 4 at Mania.

  18. #98
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    Admittedly, I would also love to see Wyatt take on Brock at 'Mania for a number of reasons but eh... Bray would be forced to job again and he's really only been booked strong twice. In the lead up to WrestleMania 30 & 31 when WWE fed him to Cena and Taker.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I think they need to worry about giving Bray a feud to win and getting his momentum back before they focus on a face turn.
    Agreed, but my point was in general, not specifically for now.

  20. #100
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    Why is Bray Wyatt off TV? I know he is hurt, but why is he off TV? Wyatt's gimmick is that he is a Sadistic Preacher/Cult Leader. So why can't he be the mouth piece for the Family and walk down with a cane? The rocking chair would have never made more sense than right now. The family comes the stage, Wyatt cuts his promo while sitting the in the chair. The family can still do his dirty work, while he just sits and watches.

    Once Wyatt heals, then he comes back to the in ring action, but they way I see it, there is no reason for him to be off TV.
    Last edited by Powder; 04-20-2016 at 01:47 PM.

  21. #101
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    My guess is he can't walk right now. But I agree with you. Once he is better, I'd get him on TV right away. Even if he's in a wheel chair. He needs to be on TV talking. He needs to get under Roman's skin and have his family do their thing. First week with no Bray and the ratings drop! To me, that's no coincidence!

    Has Vince McMahon Lost Confidence in Roman Reigns.

  22. #102
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    I am posting in this thread for two reasons:

    1. Because I think it will be pretty cool that (if the rumors are true) that Wyatt will win his first WWE Title in an Elimination Chamber

    and

    2. I got tired of seeing that the Jack Swagger thread was the last Superstar thread to be written in.

  23. #103
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    Is it worth re-purposing this thread for either The Bludgeon Brothers (as Harper and Rowan seem to constantly gravitate back towards each other), or for Bray Wyatt as a singles wrestler?

    Been a big year or so for Bray, but so far as I can tell he's still doing that thing where he says a whole lot of nothing but makes it sound good.

    As for Harper, I think there's a lot of support for him in certain sections of the crowd, but for whatever reason they don't seem to know what to do with him as a solo act.

  24. #104
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    It's been a big year for Bray on paper, but... a cup of coffee with the title, an all time lame feud with Orton, and yeah, now he's dressing up as Sister Abigail. Eventful, but not exactly quality.

    I freakin' love Harper and would probably actually watch if he won a top level championship. Yeah, no idea why they can't wrap their minds around a solo use for him. Kind of mind boggling, actually.

  25. #105
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    OK, nothing seemed to come of it the first time, but I've now got the power to do it myself - so this'll be for Bray, and if there's interest enough the Bludgeon Brothers can have their own thing down the line.

    Boy, that Sister Abigail shit sucked, huh?

    Doesn't seem to have hurt him too much, though, as he's been touted as the opponent for Lesnar at the Rumble. Seems like Bray's the kinda guy whose credibility can take a kicking but be quickly built back up, in the eyes of management. Telling that the rumour was that Vince didn't think Balor 'deserved' the spot against Lesnar and has come back to Bray - presumably, that means he think Bray DOES deserve it.

  26. #106
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    Bray has size going for him, with power moves. He is lited at 6'3" and 285lbs which is very comparable to Lesnar. Plus Bray is very athletic.

    Balor is listed at 5'11" and 190lbs.

    Bray visually makes more sense.

    I know that we are discussing predetermined professional wrestling, but there is still some element of reality mixed in. Would anyone really believe that a former Collegiate Heavyweight Wrestling Champion and a former UFC Heavyweight Champion would have any problem with a 5'11", 190 pound guy?

  27. #107
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    Well I know that, obviously. But AJ Styles is the same height as Balor and only about 20lbs heavier, and CM Punk is just a bit taller but the same weight as Balor and they both got big spots against Lesnar, so it's clear that doesn't really matter as much to WWE if they think you deserve it.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Bray has size going for him, with power moves. He is lited at 6'3" and 285lbs which is very comparable to Lesnar. Plus Bray is very athletic.

    Balor is listed at 5'11" and 190lbs.

    Bray visually makes more sense.

    I know that we are discussing predetermined professional wrestling, but there is still some element of reality mixed in. Would anyone really believe that a former Collegiate Heavyweight Wrestling Champion and a former UFC Heavyweight Champion would have any problem with a 5'11", 190 pound guy?

    I'm sorry but none of that matters. Fans don't care about that stuff anymore. With Finn, at least you would get a fantastic match like AJ/Brock and Punk/Lesnar where Finn bumps all over the place for Lesnar, and Lesnar sells crazy for him, and both guys get over before Lesnar ultimately wins. Probably even dueling chants. And Finn would even get something in defeat. Brock's best stuff is with smaller guys.

    With Bray you get absolutely nothing, because he's a painfully average worker, with a spent gimmick, and you would probably get all sorts of goofy Vince overbooking that would demean Brock. Just no. Bray/Brock should never happen, unless it's some Raw/house show where Bray gets squashed in 2 minutes. Otherwise no. He's just useless and a turn off at this point. Oh and his finisher is 'meh', and I don't care for the crab walk either. I don't want to see that stuff in a Brock match ever.

  29. #109
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    However, both Punk and Ayles optically are much thicker than Balor and those 20 pounds makes them look much bigger than Balor. Also, both proved themselves against bigger, stronger opponents in the WWE and TNA/Japan for Styles. While I know that Vince will never acknowledge TNA, the general fan is well aware of Styles' time there and what he accomplished. Punk was in the WWE for years prior to facing Lesnar and went toe to toe with everyone including The Undertaker before facing Lesnar.

    Yes, many people do know all about Japan and what Balor/Devitt accomplished there, but the general public doesn't. What big names/huge stars/marquee opponents did Devitt beat there? I couldn't even tell you without looking them up.

    Styles faced/beat Flair, Sting, Samoa Joe, Angle, Booker T, Steiner, Hall and Nash, Hogan, Dudleys, Hardys, Lashley while in TNA, BUT Vince will never tell us that, but we all know, and so does everyone else. And since his inclusion in the WWE Styles faced/beat Cena, Ambrose, Miz, Orton, Shane, KO, Jericho, Reigns, and he held his own against Lesnar.

    Yes Balor faced off against Joe, but that was in NXT, and for in tents and purposes, it doesn't count. Vince looks at Balor as an indy darling who is too small and injury prone to give a major title run to. I don't agree, but that's what I think Vince thinks. And until Vince gives up the Reigns (pun intended) I do not see that changing. Just look at KO, Vince holds his body structure against him, and he is 6'0" and 265lbs, but he is not "ripped". Also look at Jinder. He is a career jobber, but he got himself into great shape and gets a lengthy title run, including beating Orton a few times.

    I would love to see Balor vs Lesnar, but I think that ship is long gone, and never returning.

    If Lesnar resigns after Mania, IMHO, at 40, he will sign for less money and less dates. He will work only the big 4, maybe less, and be the special attraction like Taker has been.
    Last edited by Powder; 12-05-2017 at 10:02 AM.

  30. #110
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    You'll need to read my post a bit more closely, because Punk is about the same weight as Balor despite being taller. A quick search suggests he's actually a bit lighter than Balor. AJ is a bit thicker, sure, but when you get to that point it's splitting hairs. Size is either a factor or it isn't and marginally thicker shoulders ain't going to mean a lot. Either way, one guy who is the same height, and one guy who is the same weight, got the match, and you can try and add extra details to qualify it but it's proof positive that it isn't just about size.

    Allystare's hit the nail on the head, this stuff doesn't matter to them, or to some in the audience anymore (though some fans do still care, obviously). But if the decision makers thought Balor was the guy for the match, he'd have the match. Bray may get more of a free run because of his size but that'll just be part of why they think the he deserves it and not a reason instead of it.

  31. #111
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    I get it, but optically Styles and Punk come off as much bigger than Balor, even when they aren't.

    And Ally....Sister Abigail is meh? I completely disagree. It is one of the best new finishers that has been developed in the past few years. It has the impact of a DDT and Corbin's End of Days is just a different version of Sister Abigail.

    Cena's AA, Rollins' knee, Elias'/Hardy's swinging neckbreakers, the Club's Magic Killer, Ziggler's Zig Zag, those are all MEH.

    Sister Abigail looks like it fucking hurts.

  32. #112
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    I disagree. I don't think they do come off bigger. Punk comes off taller but skinnier for it. And it's only when you really look at AJ that you notice he's carrying the extra weight. They are all smaller guys and they all look like smaller guys, in my opinion.

    End of Days looks like shit, so I wouldn't compare anything you like to that. Sister Abigail... it's OK. Seen him do it well and badly at different times. It's usually not as good as a well-executed DDT.

    But I guess if wrestling is post-sports, what a finisher looks like is going to be largely immaterial. The very fact of its existence would be enough - like the people's elbow, cobra, etc.

  33. #113
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    I do not think there will ever be another People's Elbow or Cobra in wrestling again as they were so awful.

    But, what a finisher looks like is the driving force behind it. Again the optics of an awesome move/finisher makes it look more devastating. The F5 looks amazing. The Flying Forearm, the RKO. Any version of the DDT. KO Punch from Big Show is awesome in it's simplicity and is legit coming from a 7 foot 500 pound guy. The jackhammer. Hell even the Spear (when done well) looks like it hurts like hell bc it is derived from the NFL and Rugby where it is an actual thing.

    Here is Bray's Sister Abigail on Lesnar, and while I'll agree it is not Bray's best, it still looks really impact-full by the way that Lesnar head hits the canvas.

    EDIT: Just an observation....it looks like Strowman dropped a few pounds, slimmed and toned up in the past year or so.


  34. #114
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    But in a world where wrestling is just a story, not an attempt at creating something that looks and reals like a sport, the believability of it being devastating becomes irrelevant. It's a finisher because it's a finisher and we said it's a finisher so eat your shit and don't complain.

    I mean, I'm still very committed to the credible athletic side (I don't even like the KO punch finisher because if you could knock someone out like that your matches should last seconds) so I'm not saying what I believe - I'm just following through on the more contemporary approach to wrestling. Y'know, like the vast majority of the Young Bucks offence doesn't actually make any sense - the handspring back rake will leave long in the memory.

    But yeah, the logical conclusion if wrestling doesn't have to do that other, athletic side of things is that the finisher would just have to exist, not look good.

  35. #115
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    You know what the best Sister Abigail is? The one he did as a running version on Rey.


  36. #116
    I beat up Kong! Powder's Avatar
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    That's my point. We all know that wrestling is scripted, and what ever finisher is determined is usually going to finish the match. But Sister Abigail looks impressive and that it looks like it truly hurts. So it gives the move more credibility in a non-credible contest.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Well I know that, obviously. But AJ Styles is the same height as Balor and only about 20lbs heavier, and CM Punk is just a bit taller but the same weight as Balor and they both got big spots against Lesnar, so it's clear that doesn't really matter as much to WWE if they think you deserve it.
    CM Punk fights at 170 now, but he was legitimately 200+ when he was in WWE. I can say that with confidence. He's 6'1" according to UFC and was thicker than I am when he was in WWE and I am both taller and outweigh Finn Balor. At no point are they the same weight. 190 is being generous for Finn who is likely a shoot 175.



    That's Robbie Lawler who fights at 170. He's likely closer to his walk around weight in that photo, but the guy is 5'11", like Finn is billed, and is a 170-lb fighter that is noticeably thicker than Finn. Balor is as cut as they come (he could probably step on stage for a physique competition today and do well), and people buy 190, but he's a very slight man without a ton of muscle mass. Both AJ and Punk are visibly heavier than Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allystare View Post
    I'm sorry but none of that matters. Fans don't care about that stuff anymore. With Finn, at least you would get a fantastic match like AJ/Brock and Punk/Lesnar where Finn bumps all over the place for Lesnar, and Lesnar sells crazy for him, and both guys get over before Lesnar ultimately wins. Probably even dueling chants. And Finn would even get something in defeat. Brock's best stuff is with smaller guys.

    With Bray you get absolutely nothing, because he's a painfully average worker, with a spent gimmick, and you would probably get all sorts of goofy Vince overbooking that would demean Brock. Just no. Bray/Brock should never happen, unless it's some Raw/house show where Bray gets squashed in 2 minutes. Otherwise no. He's just useless and a turn off at this point. Oh and his finisher is 'meh', and I don't care for the crab walk either. I don't want to see that stuff in a Brock match ever.
    People on message boards don't care about that kind of stuff, average fans do.

    Man, I can't tell you how often I talk to fans at indy shows, average everyday people who have the WWE Network and go to live events but aren't "Internet fans" in the sense that they are on message boards or reading dirt sheets or immersed in the minutia. These people care about things like size and the size disparity in matches like that. These are the types of people who roll their eyes at the idea of some of these matchups. These are the types of people who aren't in it for six star matches, but are in it for the entire ride.

    And for me, personally, Bray vs Brock is a lot more interesting than Finn vs Brock. Finn vs Brock is probably exactly what you suggested, and I wouldn't buy any of Brock's selling for Finn. I'm sorry, but I've been in the ring with guys that I have a 50-lb weight advantage on, let alone Brock's 100-lb advantage, and I can toss them around like rag dolls whether they're working with me or not. AJ/Punk (both billed at 218) is my lower limit for Brock, otherwise I'm probably skipping the show. I'm so much more interested in Joe/Braun/Bray -- guys closer to Brock's size that can nut up to him and hold their own and not just try and play stick and move or hope to get a lucky shot in.

  38. #118
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    For me, believeablity is not really a big deal. I understand coach's point but that's where i would say if like Balor transformed when he's the Demon and lays his shit in, maybe even draws blood from Brock, you could tell an interesting story. I'm not as high on Balor though and I don't think he could have nearly as fun match with Brock as AJ and Punk have had.

    As for Bray, I don't think he's having a match with Brock anytime soon. He's working with Woken Matt Hardy and that's going to be entertaining cause Broken/Woken Matt is so much fun.

    I don't think Vince likes the idea for Brock/Bray.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Boy, that Sister Abigail shit sucked, huh?

    Doesn't seem to have hurt him too much, though, as he's been touted as the opponent for Lesnar at the Rumble. Seems like Bray's the kinda guy whose credibility can take a kicking but be quickly built back up, in the eyes of management.
    I wonder if that's actually true for the fans though. I remember some years back people were very high on Bray, but there's a lot less positivity out there about him now. I think you can only fuck around with a character like this before people start to lose interest.

  40. #120
    Samuel Plan
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    It's very hard as a long time proponent of the man to deny that his career seems to have reduced to a simmer. WWE clearly don't know what to do with the character. The way he's written is woeful. I worry now that being put with this Hardy gimmick - which is undeniably comical, regardless of how one might feel personally about its creative merits -could strike the wrong tone with Bray so completely that the character's rhetoric might never be able to be taken as threatening again. That's a problem for one built around fear and menace.

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