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Thread: The John Cena Thread

  1. #81
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    Is there any chance that Cena walks out of MITB as champion? I mean look at it from this perspective, Vince wants to do something to dredge up business, and Cena holding the title would/could do just that. Also, it could be the start of a few loose ends. When bryan eventually comes back he will need a credible opponent to take the title from, and we never really got to see the Cena/Bryan feud last year. We got one match, and then in a manner of 30 seconds, the feud switched to Bryan vs Orton and the Authority.

    Cena winning could really be best for business. Seriously. I know we all speculate about Cena turning heel, but at MITB could be the perfect placement. Look, Wyatt is not ready to be champ and he doesn't need the belt to be effective. Reigns is still too green, but the is the only other legit person to win the title. Reigns wasn't supposed to be in the match, and just imagine that during the match HHH and Stephanie come down and screw Reigns out of the title and allow Cena to win it.

    Cena sides with the Authority just like the Rock did to become the "corporate champion" that the "company can get behind" a true A+ player, THE A+ player if you will.

    Cena turning sets up a monster comeback story with Bryan, where the WWE can even bring in the "reality" of the Bella twins forced to take sides against each other.

    Screwing Reigns sets up Reigns vs HHH at SummerSlam or if Bryan is still not cleared to wrestle, Reigns vs Cena in a hold over feud until Bryan is ready.

    MITB is the perfect time for Cena to turn and join the Authority.

  2. #82
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    Powder, did you not see your last post in this thread also saying that the perfect time to turn Cena heel is NOW (which was in March)?

    You are worse than a 15 year old teenaged boy with your one tracked mind.

  3. #83
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    You are not even worth a response.

  4. #84
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    I'd be OK with Cena as champ if it's something where the Authority hand picked and helped him win, but he's disgusted by it all. Then again, Cena would probably just vacate the title in that scenario.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    You are not even worth a response.
    Neither is the actual content of your post.

    Instead of complaining, and making the same tired request over and over again, either look for the positives in what you're watching, or don't watch at all. Seriously. Reading your posts make it seem like you're not getting ANY satisfaction out of it, so why do you bother?

    EDIT
    For the record, I think heel Cena could be a tremendous idea. I'm not against it at all. But I'm also not going to reasonably expect it anymore. If it ever happens, it'll be after major changes to the top of the card. While many point to how huge Higan's turn was in 1996, a forgotten aspect to that turn was the fact that he was top for 12 years before that. When Hogan turned heel in 1996, he has part of a massive storyline that made up for the fact that WCW lacked star power at the top (and that is if you ignore the fact that Hogan was not the star in WCW that he was in WWF, and that they also had Savage, The Giant, Sting, Luger, Flair, and others to carry the cheers).

    For Cena to turn heel now, it would leave roman Reigns, Sheamus, and an injured Daniel Bryan as the top faces.

    It's not logical.

  6. #86
    Let's not fight here dudes!

    I will admit that as much as my co-owner of the Sting Hall of Fame is being a tad hopeful and stuck on the Cena heel turn, he has a point. Who in this match seems like they should be holding the WWE title right now; Bray Wyatt isn't ready, Sheamus has been in the upper midcard too much to be a favorite, Randy Orton just had a long reign, Roman Reigns isn't even close to being ready no matter what WWE seems to believe and there's a better chance of a Pink Floyd reunion than Alberto Del Rio winning. Cesaro is the only guy other than Cena you could talk me into, and dare I say it's also a tad too soon for him? Cena does make the most sense to win, and him joining up with The Authority to win the title (while screwing Reigns in the process) is certainly the most exciting scenario. And a little shot in the arm never hurt anyone, even if WWE isn't as off as some think.

    Now will it happen; no. I think the better possibility is that Cena will win clean and then drop the belt to Lesnar at Summerslam, which wouldn't be a terrible scenario either.


  7. #87
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    I don't see how Bray winning could do too much damage. They've still got what's left of The Shield vs The Authority as a draw and the fans certainly seem in to Bray.

    Cena probably is the best choice heading into Summerslam, but I think that Bray winning opens up more interesting options.

  8. #88
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    I just don't want to see Bray given a reign if they are planning on ending it at Summerslam. Same with Cesaro or Reigns. If they have an idea to push DB getting the title back farther, then ok, but if they're planning on giving him the title back basically as soon as he comes back, I don't want a first-timer with the belt. So for that reason, Cena makes a lot of sense. He can have a transitional reign without it hurting him at all.

  9. #89
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    That's an assumption of the new champion dropping the title. Let's be honest: what was Daniel Bryan doing as champion that made you want to see him champion more or again? There wasn't much. Unlike the Summer of Punk, the interest in Daniel Bryan's push wasn't being champion as much as fighting to get there. Once he won the titles, it's been rather disappointing.

    I said it a few times before WrestleMania, but Daniel Bryan is just not the type of star who should be the top face. I think WWE severely lacks the ability to book a man of his size to be credible against everyone else in the company. I would rather the title be moved onto someone else because there would be more entertaining options. Bray Wyatt being the frontrunner, with Cesaro being next.

  10. #90
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    I don't disagree with Pen, but putting Bryan against Kane was the worst idea.. He could have had a much better reign against pretty much anyone else.


    Bryan shouldn't just automatically get the title back though. We're not even sure when he's coming back.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    That's an assumption of the new champion dropping the title. Let's be honest: what was Daniel Bryan doing as champion that made you want to see him champion more or again? There wasn't much. Unlike the Summer of Punk, the interest in Daniel Bryan's push wasn't being champion as much as fighting to get there. Once he won the titles, it's been rather disappointing.

    I said it a few times before WrestleMania, but Daniel Bryan is just not the type of star who should be the top face. I think WWE severely lacks the ability to book a man of his size to be credible against everyone else in the company. I would rather the title be moved onto someone else because there would be more entertaining options. Bray Wyatt being the frontrunner, with Cesaro being next.
    It was disappointing because he was put against the wrong guy, got injured, and then had to deal with the aftermath of his injury onscreen. Of course it wasn't too interesting, but you can't put that all on him. If they had put him against Orton, Batista or even a Wyatt in the past few months I think it's a whole different scenario. Instead he got pulverized by Kane in another attempt by WWE to make Kane credible.

    Either way, I don't expect he'll get the belt back soon anyway. The best storyline for Bryan when he returns is for The Authority to prevent him from even sniffing the title again for the next several months, before he ultimately wins the Rumble (like he should've last year) and takes the title at Wrestlemania from Brock Lesnar. Not only does that work best, it also gives Bryan more time to heal up and return fully healthy. In the meantime, I think Cena is likely winning the belt at MITB and they'll do Cena vs. Lesnar at Summerslam.


  12. #92
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    With Lesnar holding the title til Mania? Fat chance of that happening, Cult.

    if Cena does win the title, it HAS to be a transitonal one month reign and I'd rather not see the next guy lose the belt until at least the rumble.

  13. #93
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    Lesnar is not winning the title until the Rumble so that he doesn't have to be there every week, like the Rock.

    Then I can see Bryan winning the Rumble and facing Lesnar.
    Last edited by Powder; 06-18-2014 at 01:50 PM.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    It was disappointing because he was put against the wrong guy, got injured, and then had to deal with the aftermath of his injury onscreen. Of course it wasn't too interesting, but you can't put that all on him. If they had put him against Orton, Batista or even a Wyatt in the past few months I think it's a whole different scenario. Instead he got pulverized by Kane in another attempt by WWE to make Kane credible.

    Either way, I don't expect he'll get the belt back soon anyway. The best storyline for Bryan when he returns is for The Authority to prevent him from even sniffing the title again for the next several months, before he ultimately wins the Rumble (like he should've last year) and takes the title at Wrestlemania from Brock Lesnar. Not only does that work best, it also gives Bryan more time to heal up and return fully healthy. In the meantime, I think Cena is likely winning the belt at MITB and they'll do Cena vs. Lesnar at Summerslam.
    First, it wasn't in an attempt to make Kane credible, it was to make Daniel Bryan credible. Kane was a beast, and re-re--re-invented as a demon so that when Daniel Bryan overcome the odds, Bryan looked a lot more threatening. The problem, as everyone here should have recognized, is that it's not as impressive since Kane has been in this position hundreds of times before. Add the bad storylines, and it's ultra lame.

    But I disagree that if Bryan's first threat was Orton, Batista, or Wyatt it would have been any better.

    Typically when WWE crown a new champion, especially at WrestleMania, the post-Mania tour is all about extra credibility, and it's rarely an entertaining story.
    • Wrestlemania 22 - Rey Mysterio
      Any denying how poorly booked his run was?
    • Wrestlemania 21 - Batista
      Batista wasn't bad, but it was bland. Rematch after rematch vs HHH, moved to Smackdown and had a very lame feud with JBL, an odd one with Eddie that was cut short tragically, moved into a tag team while champion with Rey Mysterio, and then was injured. Not impressive.
    • Wrestlemania 21 - John Cena
      Maybe the best of the bunch, but mostly because of how hot Cena was at the time. He continued vs JBL in a decent bout, moved to Raw hot as hell... and then he started getting booed. vs Jericho, vs Angle, mini angle vs Carlito and Chris Masters, then vs Edge...
    • Wrestlemania 20 - Chris Benoit
      One of the more comparable ones to Bryan. Rematch after Mania in the Triple Threat, and then faced Kane who was recently turned demonic again and was a larger opponent who couldn't be beat by conventional means (No Crossface).
    • WrestleMania 14 - Stone Cold Steve Austin
      Here's the odd one out. After winning the title, he was faced by his biggest foe in Vince McMahon, who stacked the deck as much as he could with a recently turned heel Mick Foley as Dude Love. They had great matches too. But, then he lost to... you guessed it, KANE. Sure, he won it back the next night, but it's an indicator of what the Big Red Monster has been to the WWE Title scene.


    My point being that the post Mania runs for newly crowned champions are used to continue to get them over in some way, finding challenges they didn't face on their way to the title. In the case of Bryan, Rey, Benoit, and Austin, part of their newest challenges were being outsized. And this meant that many of these feuds were disappointing due to their predictable nature. On top of that, but WWE never really went 100% with any of them either. Sure, Austin and Cena ended up blowing up, but in almost all cases, it was like Vince McMahon still needed convincing that these guys could deliver.

    Bryan is no different.

    Concerning Cena, I'm hard pressed to find a good idea for him to become champion. At present, none of the ideas have been better than taking a chance with Reigns, Cesaro, or Wyatt.

  15. #95
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    Never count Cena out. I'm not convinced that Bryan gets the title back right away when he returns, which, for all we know, may not be for many months. With the 2nd briefcase match too, even if Cena does get the win, I could see an "instant cash-in" moment to get the belt onto someone as unlikely as Seth Rollins or, and this is another crazy thought, there's no guarantee that Triple H himself won't enter the second MITB (such a move would, of course, blow the minds of storyline nerds who'd reason he could get himself a title shot whenever he wanted with or without a briefcase, but, hey, it's pro-wrestling).

    I really don't know who is going to win this or what the right business decision is.

    One thing I will say with any certainty is that we are not heading to a Cena heel turn in the summer of 2014. The company just lost Daniel Bryan, Batista's babyface run was a total flop, CM Punk is a ghost, and while they seem to have guaranteed stars in Reigns and Ambrose on the face side of things, John Cena is still THE man, selling merch, granting wishes, etc. No chance in hell they kill the golden goose when the company is in a bit of a free fall financially either.

  16. #96
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    I might just be buying into Triple H's promos, but I don't know if they should go right back to Bryan when he gets back. He had a shot and it didn't work out, they can't put the whole wrestling world on "pause" because he's hurt.

    It might not be fair, but sometimes life isn't fair, and if they have to sacrifice a lengthy Bryan run and a little bit of his overness to get someone like Bray over and give him a lengthy run, so be it. Let Bryan chase again, it seemed to be his strength.

  17. #97
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    If Wyatt had emerged victorious from that Cena feud, I could have seen him getting the belt, but I can't see it now. It still seems way too soon.

  18. #98
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    BZZZZZZZZZZZT
    WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    or

    BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!


    Bray Wyatt was NOT hurt by losing to Cena. This is a ladder match where anyone can win and get away with it, especially in a cheap manner such as having your disciples become Tag Champions that night and then interfere on your behalf to grant you the victory.

    Besides, if not Bray, who is the hottest star in the company right now? He's more over than Roman Reigns and Cesaro.

  19. #99
    Ah the old BZZZZT WRONG! is making a comeback. About time.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    Concerning Cena, I'm hard pressed to find a good idea for him to become champion. At present, none of the ideas have been better than taking a chance with Reigns, Cesaro, or Wyatt.
    The only idea that works as far as Cena becoming champion is WWE wanting to do something along the lines of the rumored Bryan-Lesnar match at Summerslam with Cena taking Bryan's place. In the end, I think that's what they're going to do. Do I agree that they should probably take a risk on one of the younger guys in this match? Aside from Reigns, who I still feel is nowhere close to what WWE believes him to be, sure; Wyatt and his family controlling the titles would be intriguing, and Cesaro has a built in storyline with Lesnar already that WWE could run with. But past experience shows that the WWE loves to go with the safe pick (until the crowd forces their hand), and the safest pick here is for WWE to give Cena the title, set up the long awaited rematch with Lesnar come Summerslam and go from there.


  20. #100
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    ahem:

    Quote Originally Posted by main page
    The Forbes website has a new article up asking if John Cena as WWE World Heavyweight Champion is really best for WWE's business. The author took some of WWE's revenue figures and overlaid them with WWE's three biggest stars of the last five years - John Cena, Randy Orton and CM Punk, excluding Cena's brief concurrent championship run in the summer of 2011 and his even briefer reign at Elimination Chamber in 2010. The article contains graphs that the author created but he wrote the following:

    "As shown in the graph, over the last five years Cena has only been champion during one period of rising revenue, in late 2009. Since then he’s held the belt at length four different times, and during all of them WWE’s quarterly revenue has been on the decline. What’s more, the company’s income tends to rebound shortly after those title runs come to an end.

    And curiously enough, in-story COO Triple-H’s repetitive claims that Orton ought to be the face of the company appear to ring true. When Orton wears the championship belt, WWE’s revenues tend to climb. Then again, company performance was all over the place during CM Punk’s 434-day reign, and that may be the only proof we need that WWE’s in-ring champion doesn’t actually have much impact on the company’s revenue.

    To reiterate, this is obviously far from a scientific study. WWE’s total revenues include segments like DVD sales and WWE Studios, which have little to do with the ongoing in-ring action. Plus this study only looks at the revenue side; perhaps a further analysis would show that WWE’s profits surge under Cena’s title reigns. But a brief look at the numbers suggests that, popular as he is, Cena being the WWE champion isn’t necessarily the best thing for business. And who knows, maybe that means Cena’s latest title run has more to do with in-ring story telling than cashing in on young fans, and maybe, just maybe, that means he’ll do something interesting for once."
    Wow...

  21. #101
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    Is Making John Cena WWE Champion What's Really Best For Business?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmi...-for-business/

    Thoughts?

    Damn you man lol.

  22. #102
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    It's all good!

    But share your thoughts too. Like me, I know you've respected Cena's work more than most people seem to, but I also sense you've grown tired of WWE in general, and I think Cena and the way WWE books their entire roster is a reason for that. I could be wrong, but I don't think the booking of Cena is exactly the problem as much as it's the symptom of the real problem.

  23. #103
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    Orton should be lauded for this.

  24. #104
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    Do you really think it's that Orton is a draw, or that ABC (anyone but Cena) please so many people? I'm not shitting on Orton, you know better, but at the same time I think the lesson here is more that Cena creates an air of apathy towards the product, leading to people tuning out.

  25. #105
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    I'm curious what ticket sales trends show. Not TV ratings or PPV buys, just ticket sales.

  26. #106
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    Ticket sales are hard to use as a comparison point, as Cena's reign could coincide with a three month tour of not-so-hot crowds and places, whereas Orton could have been champion during a sellout UK tour and a few Raw's based in NY, Chicago etc.

    I think that it does show that Cena is the main issue though, as Orton has been around as long, and has a fair share of detractors, but is generally viewed as less stale than Cena.

  27. #107
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    Now that you mention it, I noticed he didn't take merchandise into consideration. Sadly, I think that's a stat worth considering.

  28. #108
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    It's an interesting article, but what it really seems to show is that (other than a weird 2009 where things shot up in Q4 for some reason), every year follows the same trend that we already know, regardless of who's champion. A rise in Q1 and Q2 (sometimes into Q3, depending on when WrestleMania falls), a decline with a leveling off around SummerSlam followed by a second brief decline in Q4 and shooting right back up come Rumble season.

    It doesn't seem to matter who is WWE Champion. CM Punk's entire reign followed more or less the same trend, with a sharper decline after WrestleMania when The Rock left and a sharper incline that seemed to coincide with his heel turn/the return of The Rock/an increase in revenue from going to three hours.

    The trend also seems to show that they put the belt on Cena when the decline begins in hopes of stemming it. If they didn't put the belt on Cena in 2011, for instance, would the decline have been as rapid and extreme as the one in 2012? (I doubt it, since The Rock leaving probably had a lot to do with that.)

    So then, in terms of dollars, does it really matter who is Champion, or is "the Champion" no longer the draw, replaced by the characters?

    EDIT: I'd be interested to see a similar graph focusing on when Cena's there versus out with injury.
    Last edited by Team Farrell; 07-02-2014 at 04:35 PM.

  29. #109
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    It also depends who the champ is working with. It is about the main event, not just the guy with the 10-pounds of gold (or however heavy the title is). So Orton could be working with Cena while on top and the show would benefit from the Cena rub so to speak. (personally i prefer Cena the challenger when compared to Cena the Champ) Also CM Punk had many times as the champ on Raw where Cena was still the Main Event guy.

  30. #110
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    There's certainly a lot more to the equation than whoever is holding the gold, but in the end, it's still a sign of WWE's focus. If Orton was a better draw because Cena was chasing him, then make Cena chase someone now instead of being champion.

  31. #111
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    I think that Cena's latest reign is not really about money but the simple fact that they dont want to feed anyone else to Brock. Will revnunes rise with Brock as the champion?

  32. #112
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    Maybe for the weeks after he wins, if he's even on Raw. If he's nowhere to be seen... I dunno.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15 View Post
    Maybe for the weeks after he wins, if he's even on Raw. If he's nowhere to be seen... I dunno.
    Excuse me, Brock Lesnar has the 1 behind the 1 in 21 and 1. He doesnt need to show up to be a draw.

  34. #114
    If Brock is winning the title at Summerslam, he's losing it that very night. WWE is basically following the same plan they had when Daniel Bryan was supposed to face Lesnar, only now with Cena in his place. Remember, that plan also included Cesaro cashing in Money in the Bank on Lesnar to win the title after the Bryan-Lesnar match. Obviously Cesaro isn't going to do that now, but my guess is WWE has a plan to have someone take the belt off Lesnar that night. What it is I don't know; perhaps Rollins cashes in, there's some sort of Authority shenanigans, or some certain former Paul Heyman guy steals the belt to stick it to Brock and The Authority. All I know is Brock won't leave that night holding the belt.


  35. #115
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    WWE still hasn't discovered pre-tapes, apparently.

    You could have Brock shoot a month's worth of promos in one night and pretend that he's there every week. Only Paul needs to appear before the crowd.

    I dunno if those are considered "appearances" and violate his contract or what, but it seems really silly to me that they've never done it.

    Hell, "via satellite" would probably get him heat.

    Having him leave and refuse to show up with the belt works...but it doesn't considering that the entire Daniel Bryan story for two months was that he was being stripped because the fans deserve a fighting champion.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Having him leave and refuse to show up with the belt works...but it doesn't considering that the entire Daniel Bryan story for two months was that he was being stripped because the fans deserve a fighting champion.
    Wouldnt that just give HHH more heat? I mean if he refused to strip lesnar because the fans deserve a fighting champion (and Heyman mocking them for it) because Brock is the Plan B. Then Bryan didnt get stripped because he was injured, he got stripped because HHH didnt want to wait til he was healthy. HHH could cut a blistering promo and it would get the Authority more heat (with Heyman there to fan the flames) which would make Bryan's return matches (against Lesnar if hes ready or maybe Orton/Rollins if he isnt) draw serious money. Hell, you could have Cesaro pretending he's champion walking out with one of the belts while the other is shown over Brock's fireplace, and beating guys every week.

    or you could you also swerve the fingerpoke finish, have Brock refuse to lay down and have HHH be too scared to strip him?

  37. #117
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    [QUOTE=Jackster;60508]Ticket sales are hard to use as a comparison point, as Cena's reign could coincide with a three month tour of not-so-hot crowds and places, whereas Orton could have been champion during a sellout UK tour and a few Raw's based in NY, Chicago etc.


    Orton is viewed as less stale for the simple reason that he had had character changes. I know I am going to miss a few but Orton was a heel in Evolution, then a face champ, to a face mid carder, to a heel legend killer, to The legacy, to Rated RKO, to a face, to a heel ,back to a face, then to the Best for Business. Meanwhile, Cena went from the Dr. Of Thuganomics to the character we see today for the past 8-9 years. No real character growth or change. Like him or hate him, Orton's character is fresher as he changes every so often, while Cena remains the same.c.

    hell, ene Austin turned heel, and the Rock in 5 years turned heel and face a few times. So did HHH and DX. The only person who has not really had character growth is Cena. That is why he is stale. Cena is a really good worker, and one of the best all time, but he is also as stale as stale can be.

  38. #118
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    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    I really don't know how WWE will treat Brock if he becomes champion. They might have decided to use all his dates for the next couple of months to help keep WWE Network subscribers around, and then renegotiate for WrestleMania season. It's shame that if that is their idea, they probably could have thrown that money at a certain Chicago wrestler and received a full time wrestler.

    But alas...

  39. #119
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    If Brock is champ longer than 2 months RAW ratings WILL drop....becuase why watch RAW if you know Brock isn't F5'ing anyone. This isn't the 80s, people are gonna just tune out and wait for PPV's.

    Unless WWE has a great secondary storyline for the weekly viewer (which is complety possible), I don't see the fall going too well. Especially with the NFL firing up around NOC.

    If it's short-time and puts over a new star (or Bryan) then I'm all for a Brock WWEWHC reign...but from SummerSlam-WrestleMania?!? Nah.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by phemom View Post
    If Brock is champ longer than 2 months RAW ratings WILL drop....becuase why watch RAW if you know Brock isn't F5'ing anyone. This isn't the 80s, people are gonna just tune out and wait for PPV's.
    How would you know he wasn't F5ing people? Isnt that the point, that Brock could show up at a Random raw, F5 D-Bri/Roman Reigns/Sheamus/Cena and leave? Couldnt Paul E create enough anticipation only to pull it away at the last minute? (that bastard) I mean Daniel Bryan was injured, a champ, and raitings went DOWN when they stripped an injured guy of the title. You knew he was hurt and still tuned in. One show a month (film a sit down interview for the second) and the PPVs? People would tune in.

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