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Thread: AAA/CMLL/General Lucha Libre

  1. #1

    AAA/CMLL/General Lucha Libre

    I don't care if no one cares. I'm starting this thread. Anyone who wants to talk about the comings and goings of AAA (or even CMLL), come here and do so. Let's start it off with a viewing of La Parka vs. L.A. Park! There's a Perro cameo!



  2. #2
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    I'm gonna ask a dumb question: What is the difference between AAA and CMLL booking wise? I have only seen the bigger events.

  3. #3
    The difference is really in the talent; otherwise they're not much different beyond the fact that CMLL is much more conservative/family oriented.

    Here's the history lesson for some perspective (I know, but it's going to have to be explained sooner or later so why not now). CMLL is the WWE of Mexico; the promotion was started in the 1930's (originally it was EMLL, till it was changed in the 80's. Like WWE), and for the longest time was the only game in town, with stars like El Santo, Gory Guerrero (Eddie's father), Blue Demon, Mil Mascaras (WWE Hall of Famer and Alberto El Patron's uncle), El Solar and others drawing the box office. AAA is formed in 1992, after booker Antonio Pena, fed up with his ideas being rejected, formed his own promotion and took the younger stars of CMLL (guys like Konnan, Eddie, Mysterio, Juventud Guerrera and others) with him. Since then, it's been a neck and neck war; AAA had the top spot during the When Worlds Collide Era back in the mid 90's, CMLL took back control soon after, and now AAA is back in control. Both of them do good business, but AAA is ahead of the curve it seems right now.


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    As a casual viewer of both, I would say AAA is trying to be more like WWE in terms of feel and big things then CMLL.. which focuses on mat based wrestling and not as many crazy angles going on.

    I do love lucha but I've always found it harder to follow than Japanese because the style of wrestling is not as translatable and they have more actual angles going on then say New Japan.

    I'll come back and link some of my favorite CMLL matches featuring Virus

  5. #5
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    Their connection to LU has introduced me to a lot more AAA guys, but I did see a great match last year between Rey Cometa and El Barbaro Cavernario. Cavernario was especially impressive, would definitely check out more of that guy.

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    I was originally a fan or AAA during the When Worlds Collide Era, I felt like their action was always more exciting. When CMLL came back, it felt like they realized their place in Mexican history and they really fought back. I think when they worked with TNA in the late 2000's, that really got them some momentum. When they have Mistico and Dos Caras Jr. was when I think they were at their best. But now AAA has regained the top spot and having someone like Konnan help with the booking keeps their ideas fresher.

  7. #7
    I could be mistaken, but wasn't the angle that brought CMLL back to the forefront the El Hijo del Santo heel turn? I seem to recall reading somewhere that his turn (which was the equivalent of Cena turning) is what really brought the promotion back after AAA had taken control during the When Worlds Collide years.


  8. #8
    So, everyone remember that Rey Mysterio-Sin Cara match WWE wanted so badly at Wrestlemania? It's happening. At Triplemania in August. That's a money match right there for AAA.


  9. #9
    Man this thread is dead. Good job Cult!

    In case you're already bored with the WWE tournament, evidently AAA is having one next month at Guerra de Titanes to crown the next Mega Champion. Someone want to discuss it? Anyone? LWO? T.O.? You can rag on me if you'd like!


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I could be mistaken, but wasn't the angle that brought CMLL back to the forefront the El Hijo del Santo heel turn? I seem to recall reading somewhere that his turn (which was the equivalent of Cena turning) is what really brought the promotion back after AAA had taken control during the When Worlds Collide years.
    Yes, you are right. That was huge. Though the "El Santo" family still hates that he did that. That was in the 90's, before Mistico and Dos Caras Jr. But AAA was still doing very good then, but lost a lot of their main talent to WCW. I always think of how well a company is doing by stars created. Yeah, WCW had Hogan then turned him heel, but what did that establish? Short term it was great, long term they didn't really build anyone outside of Goldberg. El Hijo del Santo turned heel, at the same time WCW took AAA's main luchadors, that's all great, but what impressed me most is that CMLL took time and pushed Dos Caras Jr. and later Mistico. (I know Del Rio was in AAA first, but in CMLL is when he really became a main player. In AAA it just felt like he was there because his name. In CMLL it really felt like he made a name for himself.)

  11. #11
    They definitely road that wave of Dos Caras Jr., Mistico and the beginnings of Los Perros del Mal to pretty good heights (remember, Perro Jr. launched that group in CMLL and made it big there before they went to AAA in 2010). I don't know if they make it there without the Hijo del Santo rudo turn and feud with Negro Casas though. That was big; AAA had stolen the momentum, the Mexican economy was in the toilet at the time, ect. That turn (which really was like Hogan turning in the US) really turned things around for the company, and made it possible for the rise of Caras, Mistico and Perro a few years later. The only thing surprising about it is that the Santo family didn't like it, which I've never heard. Share more details on that!

    Alas LWO, let's get to the good stuff. AAA has their own Mega Championship tournament coming up next month at Guerra de Titanes. CMLL and AAA are also rumored to be forming a working relationship. There's lucha things to discuss (even if it's just us two)!


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    They definitely road that wave of Dos Caras Jr., Mistico and the beginnings of Los Perros del Mal to pretty good heights (remember, Perro Jr. launched that group in CMLL and made it big there before they went to AAA in 2010). I don't know if they make it there without the Hijo del Santo rudo turn and feud with Negro Casas though. That was big; AAA had stolen the momentum, the Mexican economy was in the toilet at the time, ect. That turn (which really was like Hogan turning in the US) really turned things around for the company, and made it possible for the rise of Caras, Mistico and Perro a few years later. The only thing surprising about it is that the Santo family didn't like it, which I've never heard. Share more details on that!

    Alas LWO, let's get to the good stuff. AAA has their own Mega Championship tournament coming up next month at Guerra de Titanes. CMLL and AAA are also rumored to be forming a working relationship. There's lucha things to discuss (even if it's just us two)!
    Yeah, CMLL did the opposite of WCW. Once they got eyes on their promotion, they really pushed others and made others big too. And the El Santo family felt like the heel turn was a slap in the face of the legacy of El Santo himself. SI had a very nice article about El Santo and his legacy, and they talked to his family, his kids and grandkids. There are two more El Santos coming up, and one looks to be really good, and the other is the son of Hijo del Santo. There is a legal battle between the really good grandson and El Hijo del Santo over the name, and the grandson won because he is a grandchild of the original El Santo. Yeah, the whole family is a hot mess, and due to this legal battle, lots of the family has just came out and talked about how when El Hijo del Santo turned rudo, that was a slap in the face of his dad.

    Maybe the greatest piece of Karma maybe what happened to Seth Rollins in the perceptive of AAA losing Del Rio and having to strip him of the title. WWE wouldn't let Del Rio lose the title, so AAA is forced to have a tournament. Then Rollins gets hurt and now WWE has to have a tournament. Karma!

    I haven't heard of the CMLL working relationship. OMG! That would be great. I know New Japan and All Japan have worked together in the past. This could be a really good thing for both promotions! I am now officially excited. Oh snap. Part of me wishes El Rey would show AAA on top of Lucha Underground now!

  13. #13
    I gotta find that SI article! I also like that idea that karma struck WWE for not letting Del Rio finish up (even though I can't entirely blame them; you imagine if Del Rio lost to an LU guy at Titanes, followed by that guy bragging about it on LU TV? Vince would've lost it).

    Here's the deal on the CMLL/AAA stuff; you've obviously seen that Mistico/Sin Cara/Myzteziz/Carastico (SO MANY NAMES) is on the way back to CMLL right? Well, the rumor now is that Cibernetico, Chessman and maybe one other guy (Averno?) could be heading there too, which looks really bad. For some reason though, there's a lot of buzz that the two may be in cahoots, I guess because a) people have a hard time believing Cibernetico and Chessman would bolt and b) there were rumors earlier this year that AAA wanted CMLL to work with them for the Lucha Libre World Cup. On top of that, CMLL is suddenly now following AAA on Twitter, which has everyone all up in arms. It's not the strongest case in the world, but there is buzz there. And it would be epic. Imagine if AAA decided to do the Mega Champ tournament by putting eight AAA guys in a multi-man elimination match, eight CMLL guys in another and then having the winners face in the finals? MONEY. The possibilities would be endless (though I'd like a Rush vs. Pentagon finale myself).


  14. #14
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    If that happens, then it's HUGE. Mexico would explode! I like it. I hope it's true.

  15. #15
    Me too. If it sadly doesn't come to pass though, I'm still stoked for this Mega Championship tournament. Hopefully AAA does the right thing and gives it to a younger guy. I'd personally like to see Aerostar, Fantasma or Pentagon get a crack. Each of those three (and a few others) can bring a fresh, exciting change of pace to the title.


  16. #16
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    El Hijo del Fantasma is my early favorite right now.

  17. #17
    I would pick him too. I would prefer Pentagon or Aerostar (I'm really high on Aerostar right now), but Fantasma is a good choice too, especially since he's been working his ass off recently working multiple matches per show. I just hope AAA has the balls to go that route, especially since it be easy to give Mysterio or Mundo the title.


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    I'm straight reposting this from another site but it's too interesting not to mention, in view of the rumored possible AAA-CMLL partnership:

    The several minute long semi-shoot brawl at the end of the Padrisimo event 15 years ago where AAA and CMLL were literally forced to work together by Televisa.

    Casas running in with soap all over his hair trying to legit unmask Octagon, Rayo de Jalisco Jr. going for Electroshock, guys like Garza (who were friendly with both sides) trying to keep people from fighting each other and older coked up guys like Pierroth, Pirata Morgan or Cobarde looking for a good ol fight with whoever wants it while younger guys like Abismo Negro are trying to get cocky and getting bitch slapped by Porky (who, jokes aside, was a legit badass). Some guys are clearly working and others are clearly shooting. The production crew is probably clued in so they quickly cut left and right but at some points you can see older guys keeping others down using wrestling holds (it used to be customary to train in amateur wrestling for years before you took your first bump). Pierroth is the greatest non-Terry Funk crazy old man ever and brings a fire extinguisher to the fight at the end.

    It's a very different world right now but then it was the end of an era, and the older guys and the CMLL trained guys had no respect for the crappy workers without a legit background like Electro Shock, Latin Lover, Cibernetico or Abismo Negro (who could be good at times). There was real resentment because the AAA guys with their theatrics were "killing the business". Others were trying to get at Octagon who they resented for raiding CMLL talent in the locker room to start AAA, which would bring a several year business drought in CMLL.


    LWO, would love to see you pump out one of those freaking sweet historical columns on this little moment.

  19. #19
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    That video is amazing....you can see the shoot and the legit too lol. The stadium it's in looks amazing too, does either promotion do any major shows outside anymore?

    I hope some sort of partnership happens. Dream Matchups are gonna be money, and both Feds are full of old and young talent that can benefit from it.

    Really wish they would collaborate on how to show programming, the ups and downs of weekly shows are tiring.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I'm straight reposting this from another site but it's too interesting not to mention, in view of the rumored possible AAA-CMLL partnership:





    LWO, would love to see you pump out one of those freaking sweet historical columns on this little moment.
    So this is what I missed when I was in college. DAMN! Oh, I would love to do something like this.

  21. #21
    Konnan said on MLW yesterday that AAA is leaning towards a four man tournament to crown the next champion AND that they're looking at bringing someone from out of the company in for the tournament. Wonder who that is.


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    He said before that they have someone big to replace ADR so maybe that's the guy he's talking about.. Not sure who though. if its a luchador, not too many big names outside mexico.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    He said before that they have someone big to replace ADR so maybe that's the guy he's talking about.. Not sure who though. if its a luchador, not too many big names outside mexico.
    It can't be a big name luchador unless a) someone like Sombra, Rush or Atlantis is jumping ship from CMLL to AAA or b) they've offered the farm to LA Park. Beyond that, there's no one else I can think of in Mexico that they could bring in. Then again, who's a big name outside of Mexico they could get?


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    that's the thing most of the bigger names are in Japan.. maybe they contacted TNA for someone.

  25. #25
    I got it; it's Disco Inferno. He is the man that knows what's best for business!

    If they're considering TNA being a place to get a big name, they might as well just go out and get someone like Chuck Taylor. I'd be much more excited by that than anyone from TNA.


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    I just like don't really understand the thinking of bringing in another foreigner when you have capable guys for that role already.. in Mundo and Cage and so its like I hope its someone from Mexico and not some guy who doesn't really add much to your main market.

    Unless its AJ Styles cause that would be awesome... have the bullet club take over the world lol.

  27. #27
    Styles would be great. The problem is he works for New Japan, who has a talent exchange thing going with CMLL. Thus, I can't see it happening. And it's not like his contract is up, because otherwise he wouldn't be working with Nakamura at Wrestle Kingdom.


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    His contract i think is up after Wrestle Kingdom. I see him staying there.. I was shooting for the stars. To be honest, anyone not from CMLL would be a disappointment for me.. but then again, I'm not exactly high on AAA... as a promotion anyway.

  29. #29
    It's possible it could be someone from CMLL, and not just because someone could jump ship. As I brought up earlier, there's all that rumblings that the two have some sort of working arrangement being talked about. Perhaps that's the big thing coming up.


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    if CMLL and AAA somehow started working together..best for Mexico... but hard to see after what I've heard about the CmLL owner valuing loyalty.

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    I could see AJ doing a guest spot with AAA, that man is hustling like nobody's business and I don't think NJPW contracts dictate who their people can and can't work for in North America. Cannot see him winning but he'd be a very fun short term addition to the card.

  32. #32
    ^The problem again is that New Japan and CMLL have a talent exchange going on. AJ showing up at an AAA show could cause some tension between those two sides, which I'm sure both would like to avoid, hence I don't see New Japan allowing it. That said, if there is an AAA/CMLL working agreement coming together, that would open the door. Plus, AJ did look great against Fenix, Aerostar and Drago at King of Trios, so he could work that well.


  33. #33
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Are All Japan and New Japan still a rival? I know they worked together, so I thought they were cool with each other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    Are All Japan and New Japan still a rival? I know they worked together, so I thought they were cool with each other?
    They are cool enough to not wanna kill each other, but not friendly enough to work together much. AJPW is in struggle mode at the moment, they need fresh blood badly. They may not be as bad a NOAH a couple years ago...but it's headed in that direction.

  35. #35
    La Sombra-Rush is in less than an hour!


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    its Rey vs. Mundo/Morrison for the AAA Mega title Dec. 4th

    Did we go back in time to 2009 Smackdown?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    its Rey vs. Mundo/Morrison for the AAA Mega title Dec. 4th

    Did we go back in time to 2009 Smackdown?
    Sounds like we did in the best possible way. I freaking loved their 5 minute mini-match back at the World Cup thingy AAA did. Very strong chance I will check that match out, will be fascinating if Mundo actually wins the belt. Rey impressed the hell out me in his singles with Myzteziz awhile back but I wonder if he's still in good enough shape to actually be champion. Then again considering how little ADR did as champ maybe it doesn't matter? Such a weird time for AAA but I'm interested at least.

    Yo Cult, how was Rush/Sombra?

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    Not cult, but I watched Rush/Sombra.. left a little to be desired tbh.. It was solid but they aren't splitting yet so it was hard to get invested.

    As for Rey/Mundo, Rey doesn't have to work crazy, the way Mexico is structured, he likely could work very limited dates and still have a presence on TV as champ...if Mundo wins, I hope they play that into Lucha underground this season. I don't see either man being the longterm answer tho.

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    Haha I'll take anybody, I just saw that he mentioned it. Need to check out some CMLL in the near future, I know they've got some solid stuff going on.

    Mundo coming back to LU with Alberto's belt would be great, though I feel like the taping schedule will probably nix that. I honestly have no idea how Mundo would be as champ, I really like the guy but is he the kind of champ that could draw in Mexico? No clue.

  40. #40
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    I am hoping for Rey as champ. Mundo is cool and all, but I'm just thinking about how Rey ends his career.

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