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Thread: AAA/CMLL/General Lucha Libre

  1. #121
    Now that this is the General Lucha Libre thread, I bring to you some video from tonight's (or last night's, depending where you are) CMLL Tuesday show. Skip to the 21:37 mark so you can see Flyer, Robin and Astral vs. Akuma, Espanto Jr. and Templario. This is the perfect example of how deep CMLL is; just excellent work from all six guys.



  2. #122
    The Brain
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    That's what I'm talking about, Cult! Love the pointer to the match, I'll make time to check it out!

    Speaking of general lucha, I looked up some IWRG, which is a Mexican independent promotion, yesterday and found some high quality stuff, as I expected. I've seen a bit of them before and they tend to put out a strong product, and it's something a bit different. This was the highlight of what I saw, I'm going to talk about it more on TGR this week (cheap plug!) but I wanted to highlight it and put it in here too!



    Also saw a tag match featuring Black Terry, 65 years old and still going strong. I've heard him mentioned as one of the best lucha guys ever and I can believe it based on how good he still is on his old age, but I'd love to hear other thoughts on him (looking at you, Cult!).

  3. #123
    I mean, what is there to say? The dude has been a lucha libre stalwart since the 70's and is still as good today as he was when he started in the UWA. He's one of the few luchadors, along with Negro Casas, Blue Panther, Negro Navarro, Virus, Solar and even guys like El Hijo del Santo and Atlantis who despite being in their 40's, 50's and even 60's have managed to stay great by a) keeping in great shape, b) avoiding injuries (despite the high flying style, lucha libre is actually safer as guys bump less, as they instead roll out of moves) and c) adapting their styles as they get older. Instead of flying around like they used to, guys like Casas, Panther and Terry now rely on great mat work and technical wrestling to succeed (though they can still fly when called upon). Seeing those dudes do great work long past what should've been their peak is just a treat to watch, and makes you hopeful to be seeing the same thing from guys like Volador and such as time goes on.

    By the way mizfan, while that IWRG match is good, it's not even close to their standout bout. That match, and perhaps the best match in Mexico since Atlantis vs. Villano III, is a mask vs. mask match from last year between Canis Lupus and Trauma I (Negro Navarro's son). An absolute tour de force of old school lucha libre, story telling and emotion. I'm actually kind of stunned you haven't seen it, but IWRG is definitely the third wheel of lucha promotions (and with the Crash and LU around, perhaps now fourth) so they don't get a ton of shine. Here's the match though, and I advise everyone to give it a whirl.



  4. #124
    The Brain
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    Great point about the safety of the lucha style, it's always a big talking point for me when people ask about it! Awesome list of old guys who are still killing it. Ultimo Guerrero is heading that way too, I expect quite a few good years left for him even at 45.

    You know, I've heard so much about that Trauma/Canis match but I've yet to watch it. Time to fix that!

  5. #125
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    when i was more into Lucha, i loved Virus. I need to get back into tbh.

  6. #126
    The Brain
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    Freakin' Virus!! Still love that guy. My favorite Virus match this year so far:


  7. #127
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    By the way mizfan, while that IWRG match is good, it's not even close to their standout bout. That match, and perhaps the best match in Mexico since Atlantis vs. Villano III, is a mask vs. mask match from last year between Canis Lupus and Trauma I (Negro Navarro's son). An absolute tour de force of old school lucha libre, story telling and emotion. I'm actually kind of stunned you haven't seen it, but IWRG is definitely the third wheel of lucha promotions (and with the Crash and LU around, perhaps now fourth) so they don't get a ton of shine. Here's the match though, and I advise everyone to give it a whirl.

    I watched this a few weeks ago - was scanning a couple of best of 2016 lists that had it on and thought it must be worth a look. It's stuck with me, it really has - absolutely love it.

  8. #128
    The Brain
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    Watched both matches, as promised!

    Canis/Trauma was definitely one I'm glad I went out of my way to watch. The main takeaway is just how damn bloody it was, that ring was a real mess. I'm not sure I quite see it as a MOTY candidate, maybe because of the way they kept trying to collapse each other's skulls with those chairs. I know it's safer than one of the old metal ones, but it was a little cringey to me. But yeah, seriously a great match, super intense at times.

    Akuma, Espanto Jr, & Templario vs. Astral, Flyer, & Robin was fantastic, just as Cult advertised! I think it was my first look at all six guys as I haven't yet plumbed the midcard depths of CMLL, and I was really impressed all around. Good god, Astral is a jacked little man!! Really enjoyed the surprising athleticism of Robin too, and Flyer was also very impressive. The rudos all did well too, off the top of my head I think I liked Espanto best with Templario being close behind. Akuma did fine but I thought he stood out the least between them, but that's just an off the top of my head impression. These guys really went all out and blew away my expectations. It's at the very least a top 5 CMLL match that I've seen this year, great stuff.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Akuma, Espanto Jr, & Templario vs. Astral, Flyer, & Robin was fantastic, just as Cult advertised! I think it was my first look at all six guys as I haven't yet plumbed the midcard depths of CMLL, and I was really impressed all around. Good god, Astral is a jacked little man!! Really enjoyed the surprising athleticism of Robin too, and Flyer was also very impressive. The rudos all did well too, off the top of my head I think I liked Espanto best with Templario being close behind. Akuma did fine but I thought he stood out the least between them, but that's just an off the top of my head impression. These guys really went all out and blew away my expectations. It's at the very least a top 5 CMLL match that I've seen this year, great stuff.
    This is definitely your first look at Espanto if you thought he was the standout rudo mizfan. He's not terrible, but he's generally average at best and can be really boring to watch on his worst day; I mostly found him to be average here minus the Destroyer spot at the end. Akuma is more or less a guy who bases very well and keeps a match together while not displaying much offense (exactly what he did here) and Templario is a star in the making; only Sanson and Cavernario are better young rudos who work like rudos yet display great athleticism at the same time. The best thing you can say about any of these three in the match though is that they made it a comfortable enough environment for the technicos to do their stuff. Flyer, Astral and Robin are all great athletes but there's been many times where those three have looked awful because they work with old, out of shape rudos who don't feed their offense and generally make them look stupid. In this instance Akuma, Espanto and Templario not only performed at a high level but also worked their asses off to make the others look good, thus emboldening the technicos and leading to Flyer doing stuff no one has seen in recent memory and Robin going out of his mind. That was a huge performance for those; just a few months ago Flyer (who is Volador's cousin fyi) looked dead in the water and there was a lot of speculation Robin would be fired after his family (La Mascara, Maximo, Psycho Clown amongst others) trashed Ultimo Guerrero's car. Now they both look poised to raise their stock immensely if this match is any indication.


    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Canis/Trauma was definitely one I'm glad I went out of my way to watch. The main takeaway is just how damn bloody it was, that ring was a real mess. I'm not sure I quite see it as a MOTY candidate, maybe because of the way they kept trying to collapse each other's skulls with those chairs. I know it's safer than one of the old metal ones, but it was a little cringey to me. But yeah, seriously a great match, super intense at times.
    I don't have too big of a problem with the chair shots to the head considering a) none of them were unprotected (if you watch closely, both men get at least a hand up to block the impact of all four chair shots traded between the two) and b) the situation called for it considering this was the finale of a blood feud that saw the two feud for almost a year (with Lupus screwing Trauma out of the IWRG Heavyweight Title during that time). Either way it doesn't make or break the match for me; what does is how both men leave absolutely everything on the table to the point that they earned each other's respect afterwards. Well that and Trauma's unreal comeback in the closing act that is just a work of art from how both men sell it. Throw in the emotion and the unbelievable post match with the proposal and all the tears and it's something absolutely special. As far as mask matches go recently, only Atlantis-Sombra comes close to touching this for me.


  10. #130
    The Brain
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    Dunno what it was about Espanto, maybe I just liked his match the best! Definitely got to watch him more now, as well as the rest of these guys. The context of the match does make it even better, I would have never guessed the tecnicos weren't in a good position as they really did absolutely kill it here.

    I'm really interested in your assessment of Templario... Cavernario is a top, top guy to me, possibly my favorite guy in CMLL. Sanson hasn't clicked for me yet though but I know you're a big fan, so I'm keeping a close eye on him. I know his match with Soberano got a lot of hype, but I found it good but not great. I liked him more in the Torneo Gran Alternativa Final though, so maybe he's growing on me?

    You're in the majority for sure on the Canis/Trauma match! Absolutely agree that they left it all in the ring, in some ways literally insofar as I'm pretty sure they left all of their blood in there. I will marinate on it and maybe watch it again down the line!

  11. #131
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    What's going on with Angelico, Iken?

  12. #132
    Just what he said; he's leaving AAA and he's going to work over in Europe, where he's been working more anyway. I don't think this is as bad a split with AAA as the other ones were, but you can tell he was definitely lukewarm on the promotion for the last year (pretty much ever since Evans was fired) and he had been working more in Europe and the UK anyway. This is just him grabbing bookings there full time. I wouldn't expect it'll affect his LU status at all, much like it hasn't affected any of the other guys' situations, unless Angelico wants out, and nothing has suggested he does.


  13. #133
    The Brain
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    And AAA loses another one. Cult, has their status stabilized any since the whole mess with Vampiro and the troubles at Triplemania? I know they're kind of in a constant state of falling apart but always interesting to hear your thoughts and updates.

    Also, is Volador going full on rudo? Watched his match with Caristico from last month and that seemed like the direction things were going!

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