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Thread: The Bogside Massacre - Kiss Me I'm IrishSarah

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    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    The Bogside Massacre - Kiss Me I'm IrishSarah

    Let me tell you a story. Its not about wrestling but its very important to me.

    People and academics call it Bloody Sunday but my Grandmother always called it The Bogside Massacre. It happened 43 years ago.

    “I was raised in an Irish American home in Detroit where assimilation was the uppermost priority. The price of assimilation and respectability was amnesia. Although my great-grandparents were victims of the Great Hunger of the 1840s, even though I was named Thomas Emmet Hayden IV after the radical Irish Nationalist exile Thomas Emmet, my inheritance was to be disinherited. My parents knew nothing of this past, or nothing worth passing on.”


    That is a quote from Tom Hayden. He is Jane Fonnda’s ex-Husband, a former state politician and activist who pushed for immigrant history to be taught in California Public schools. As an Irish American (Who holds Irish citizenship and spent a lot of time on the Island) part of my inheritance is my Irish identity. I was rich where Tom Hayden was poor. I had aunts, uncles, my parents and my grandmother who overflowed with songs, stories, history (both personal and ancient), heroes and memories. I grew up with heroes like Pearse, Tone and Brian Boru. When other girls wanted to be Ariel the mermaid, I wanted to be Granuaile the pirate queen. I wanted to run away with Jack O’Hazeldean. I had modern heroes too. Bobby Storey, the daring spy, Michael Caraher, the valiant volunteer who lost his brother to a hale of gunfire and Martin McGuinness, the old soldier trying to gain victory through peace. I even got to meet my heroes a few times. As a daughter of Ireland, I am called to share what I inherited. Not just on St. Patrick's day.

    As a lawyer, my father has always had a great respect for the Civil Rights Movement in Ireland. He always believed there could be a peaceful way forward (even before the Good Friday Agreement). Not a settlement, but a way to move towards a United Ireland without the violence that so marred his life. My Grandmother does not agree with my father. My grandmother said that the past shows where the future goes. She always liked to sit down with a cup of good English tea and tell stories. This was one of her favorites.

    Ireland is Britain’s oldest colony. It was one of the first to rebel in a centuries long fight for it’s independence. On Easter, 1916, a small group of rebels rose up and took control of the General Post Office in Dublin, only to be crushed down by the might of the British Empire and it’s leaders were sent to the firing squad up against the wall at Kilmainham Jail. That blood sacrifice started a movement which became The Irish War for independence. The Irish War for independence and Irish Civil War turned Ireland into a free nation in the early 20th Century. At the end of the conflict, the British government willingly acceded to Unionist pressure and partitioned the Island of Ireland into two nations. The partition was imposed on the Irish people by an Act of Parliament, the Government of Ireland Act (1920), passed in the British legislature. The democratic consent of the Irish people was never considered. Michael Collins, one of the greatest heroes in Irish history, was killed by the IRA because, as part of his peace deal, he agreed to the portioning of Northern Ireland. He died a traitor to his country and his cause.

    Northern Ireland was from the start was designed by the British Government to give the Protestant majority a demographic edge. Northern Ireland represented the greatest land area in which Irish unionists could maintain a majority and thus control a “Protestant State for a Protestant people”. With limitless influence, the Unionist Protestants established a policy of covert discrimination against the Nationalist Catholics. Unionist politicians used their power to disproportionately allocate jobs and housing to Protestants. The political gerrymandering of the system was so bad that A commission investigation in 1968 issued a report which said that in Derry, Catholics made up almost 70 per cent of the electorate, due to the districting, they won only 40 percent of the council seats. It was like that all over Northern Ireland. Under the British system and boundaries (before the local Unionist government took over in 1922) Catholic Nationalists controlled about 40 percent of the local councils; but, after the redrawing of local government boundaries by the Unionist government of Northern Ireland, Nationalists only controlled only two out of eighty local councils.

    This is the setting for the non-violent civil rights movement in Northern Ireland in the beginning of the 1970s.

    Kiss me I'm Irish Sarah

    The Bogside Massacre

    Let me tell you what happened during a civil rights march in Northern Ireland on January 30, 1972.

    “Well it was Sunday Bloody Sunday, when they shot the people there
    The cries of thirteen martyrs filled the Free Derry air
    Is there anyone amongst you? Dare to blame it on the kids?
    Not a soldier boy was bleeding when they nailed the coffin lids.”
    - John Lennon and Yoko Ono, Sunday Bloody Sunday, 1972


    In Derry, British Soldiers patrolled the streets. This started after Catholic protests against discrimination by the Protestant minority in the city had exploded into violent clashes in the streets evolving into a three day riot with the sectarian police force. The Protestants begged the British Government for help. At first the Nationalist Catholics hailed the British Army as a non-sectarian force. They were quickly disabused of this notion as the Army sided with the Protestant oppressor. There was much tension between the British Army and their sectarian police force and the Irish nationalists in the city of Derry.

    In 1971, The British Army had murdered two local teens, Seamus Cusack and Desmond Beatie, whom they accused of being armed, but no evidence exists that they were armed and no weapons were ever recovered. Another four civilians were killed by the Army by the start of 1972.

    Protests in the early 60s were common in Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association were pushing many relatively non-violent civil rights marches. The Protesters demands had been simple. They included : one man-one vote, the redrawing of the electoral boundaries to better reflect the demographics of the city, the introduction of anti-discrimination legislation for work, education, and within the government, a reformed housing allocation process based on a points system, the repeal of the Special Powers Act which gave the Unionist government the ability to e indefinite internment without warrant or trial of 'any person whose behaviour is of such a nature as to give reasonable grounds for suspecting that he has acted or is acting or is about to act in a manner prejudicial to the preservation of the peace or maintenance of order' and it included the ability of the government to ban newspapers meetings and parades, and restrictions on the flying of the Irish flag. The Special Powers act was supposed to be temporary when it was passed in 1922 but it was too convenient a political weapon. the NICRA also demanded the disband of the B Specials. The B-Specials were an all-protestant, para-police force made up of local protestants. Sort of like SA Brownshirts and the Nazi party. In 1968, for example, the NICRA marched for the allocation of houses, jobs and voting rights. The March went forward despite the government banning the march under the special powers act. . The March took place down an alternate route. The RUC blocked the route of the march and baton-charged the crowd. The Irish network RTÉ took footage of the march and took down in detail the unprovoked police brutality of the RUC on unarmed protestors.

    The protest on January 30, 1972 was against Internment, the mass arrest and detention without trial of suspected Irish republican paramilitaries.

    The intent of the British Government use of Internment was to round up all the revolutionaries and members of the IRA. They could arrest and hold them without evidence or trial and basically hold them in jail. The problem came that many of those arrested had no connections with the IRA. Others, although Republican minded, had not been active in the armed struggle in decades. Others arrested included prominent members of the Civil Rights movement. The Unionist government used internment to attack their political enemies.

    “By mid-December 1971, 1576 people had been arrested by the army under the Special Powers Act, virtually all of them Catholic.”
    - Sunday Times, 1972


    My grandfather was arrested a few times. Even though he had no connection to the IRA. Even though he lived in a mixed neighborhood in Belfast. He lost his job. He was locked up without trial and completely innocent of what he was accused of. He was held for a time but never longer than a month and he was never sent to the Kesh. His arrest didn’t have the effect of breaking the IRA. It did have the effect of radicalizing his oldest son and turning all 4 of his children into ardent republicans. My grandmother says my grandfather came back with physical scars. My grandmother had used some connections she had to the legal establishment in Northern Ireland to get him released. He died in Ireland though.


    Because of such a large amount of people rounded up with little connection to the armed struggle, Internment had the opposite effect that the British Government and its sectarian bullyboys had hoped for. It brought like minded people together in close quarters with some of those violent revolutionaries. It was there where some of the intellectuals of the movement (because many of the writers and poets were easily identifiable as republicans) were arrested and thus were able to teach the republicans imprisoned the politics, language, culture and history of the armed struggle in Ireland. It radicalized many nationalists, at least, creating sympathy for the IRA which would lay the foundation of community support that the volunteers of the Irish Republican Army would later rely on. Long Kesh would later be known fondly in the memories of the time as University Of Freedom.

    There were very few Loyalists interred in the entire history of the program despite the fact that their own paramilitary group was dropping bodies and ‘Loyalist habit of intimidating Catholics burning people out of their homes. The first Protestant/loyalist internees were detained in February 1973.

    “What they did not include was a single Loyalist. Although the UVF had begun the killing and bombing, this organisation was left untouched, as were other violent Loyalist satellite organisations such as Tara, the Shankill Defence Association and the Ulster Protestant Volunteers… Faulkner was urged by the British to include a few Protestants in the trawl but he refused.”
    - Tim Pat Coogan, on the 1971 internments


    The people of Northern Ireland came together in non-violent protest of internment without trial. On Christmas Day 1971, 4,000 protestors attempted to march from Belfast to Long Kesh. The RUC broke up the protest before it reached the Kesh. On the 22nd January 1972, a protest march took place at Magilligan Strand, not far from Derry. It was brutally broken up with violence (but no firearms) by the The 1st Battalion, the Parachute Regiment.

    Major General Robert Ford wanted to oppose the march because it hurt the British Government’s image and weakened the appearance of British Army control in the city. Political demonstrations had been banned in Northern Ireland the previous August and the Major General felt that the march was a magnet for “young hooligans” and wanted to use the march as a “a scoop up operation to arrest as many hooligans and rioters as possible”. The Major General wrote his commanders in the past and said, in official memos, that the best way to deal with the problem in Derry was “after clear warnings, to shoot selected ringleaders”.

    He called in one of the most brutal and elite fighting forces in the British government to break up the march. The 1st Battalion, the Parachute Regiment (1 PARA) had a black reputation in Derry and had already been linked to using excessive physical violence to break up protests.


    “What happened on "Bloody Sunday"' was both unjustified and unjustifiable”
    - British Prime Minister David Cameron


    On January 30, 1972, there were 15,000 marchers. The protesters marched towards the city center but the British army had barricaded off much of the area and funneled the protestors towards The Bogside nationalist area of the city. Ordered to arrest as many demonstrators as possible, the Paras moved in to confront the marchers.

    First, a group of young teens rushed a barricade and soldiers behind this barricade retaliated with tear gas and water cannon, while two nearby observers were wounded with plastic bullets.

    A group of Soldiers in armored vehicles , fearing an IRA sniper advanced into the notorious republican area of The Bogside in Derry.

    The first person murdered was Jackie Duddy. The 17 yr old caught a bullet in the chest. Duddy was unarmed and running away from the advancing soldiers. A local priest, Father Edward Daly, was near Duddy when he was shot and remained by his side. There are chilling photographs of Daly giving Duddy the last rites, then waving a hankercheif while a group of men carrying his body away from the shooting. Fr. Daly said under oath "Certainly there was no threat posed to the army at the time they opened fire, none. I don't think there was any justification for it."

    Gerald McKinney stood holding his hands above his head when a soldier approached him and, at pointblank range, shot him in the chest. Kevin McElhinney was on his hands and knees when he was killed. White handkerchiefs were ignored. Anyone attempting to go to the aid of the injured was targeted. Paddy Doherty, Michael Kelly and Bernard McGuigan were killed trying to aid the wounded. John Young (Who was 17) had been shot and was dragging himself, wounded, towards the door of an apartment building with onlookers screaming from the windows, "Come on lad, come on, you're nearly there." He never made it.

    The 21 Paratroopers fired 108 rounds in the half hour of the confrontation.

    All in all, 14 men, 7 of whom were teenagers, were killed by the bullets fired by the Support Company of the First Parachute Regiment.

    With the exception of Gerald Donaghey, (who was a member of the Provisional IRA’s youth wing) none of those killed or wounded by soldiers of Support Company belonged to either the Provisional or the Official IRA.

    The British Army released statement on January 31st which claimed, “The troops came under nail-bomb attack and a fusillade of 50-80 rounds from the area of Rossville Flats and Glenfada flats. Fire was returned at seen gunmen and nail-bombers. Subsequently, as troops deployed to get at the gunmen, the latter continued to fire. In all a total of well over 200 rounds was fired indiscriminately in the direction of the soldiers. Fire continued to be returned only at identified targets” These were found to be lies.

    26 unarmed civilians were shot by the British Army Parachute Regiment in less than 30 minutes of shooting. Five of those wounded were shot in the back.

    "It was a day that caused the conflict between the two communities in Northern Ireland — Catholic nationalist and Protestant unionist — to spiral into another dimension: every Irish person conscious on that day has a mental picture of Edward Daly, later the bishop of Derry, holding a blood-stained handkerchief aloft as he valiantly tended to the wounded and the dying,"
    - Bono from U2


    For decades, the British Government largely cleared the soldiers and British authorities of blame and supported the British Army’s lies. As international pressure mounted through the peace process, the British government began to revise the story.

    In 1992, Prime Minister John Major said that the victims were innocent of any allegation that they were shot while handling firearms or explosives.

    In 1998, Prime Minister Tony Blair admitted that the previous governmental investigations into Bloody Sunday were a whitewash and ordered a public inquiry chaired by Lord Saville. The 12-year Saville inquiry found the killings were criminal acts.


    The report found that "In no case was any warning given before soldiers opened fire" and none of the soldiers "fired in response to attacks or threatened attacks by nail or petrol bombs." Also "these soldiers have knowingly put forward false accounts in order to seek to justify their firing."

    the report found that “none of the casualties shot by Support Company was armed with a firearm or a bomb of any description. None was posing any threat of causing death or serious injury.”

    It also described a “serious and widespread loss of fire discipline” among the troops of the First Battalion, Parachute Regiment and some soldiers had lied to cover their actions.

    Finally, the report found what republicans knew since the day it happened : "The immediate responsibility for the deaths and injuries on Bloody Sunday lies with those members of Support Company whose unjustifiable firing was the cause of those deaths and injuries."

    “What happened on Bloody Sunday strengthened the Provisional IRA and increased nationalist resentment and hostility towards the army.”
    - The 2010 Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday


    To this day, the British Government obstructs criminal investigations into these killers. They say that it is “not in the public interest” while continuing to go after the Provisional IRA with arrests and legal challenges from decades old cases. Recently they arrested one of my heroes, Bobby Storey, for making inquiries into the disappeared as part of a legal inquiry sanctioned by the government. Bobby was a teenager at the time Jean McConville was disappeared. It seems to me that the old guard of the RUC (now the PSNI) is using arrests and prosecutions to harm growth of Sinn Fein. The Government refuses to hold an inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane (not in the public interest) but has no problem investigating Jean McConville while keeping the evidence which pertains to British culpability of such murder under lock and key. The British Government continues to cover up the role of the British state in collusion and killings.

    People sometimes ask me why I still support the historical use of the armed struggle in Northern Ireland. The answer is simple. While the armed struggle is bloody necessity and the loss of life is regrettable, the history of Ireland and of British colonial tyranny tells us that they will not be moved by anything else. Any attempt at non-violent action will be met with violence by loyal unionists and ambivalence at best and active repression of nationalists at worst by the British government. The best way to approach an integrated, multi-ethnic, united Ireland is by a movement with a ballot box in one hand and an Armalite in the other. I support the good Friday Agreement because I believe that it gives a viable path to Republican equality in Northern Ireland and an eventual demographic path to a Republican solution to the Irish problem. Look at the success of Sinn Fein on both sides of the boarder. I believe we must give the British a chance but we must not forget our fenian dead. On that day, Martin McGuinness was a member of the Provisional IRA and he was present at the march when violence broke out while probably armed with a sub-machine gun. Today he is The Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and Sinn Fein is the largest political party on the island of Ireland.

    Tiocfaidh Ar La


    “When it is politically costly for the British to remain in Ireland, they’ll go.”
    - Danny Morrison


    Thanks for reading. If you liked it or want to talk about it (or any of my views on the issue really) feel free to comment.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-22-2015 at 02:11 AM.

  2. #2
    You just opened my eyes about this whole thing! Basically, what i got from it is a bunch of police officers murdered people that believed in their own views about this? seems like what we're seeing here to this day with the recent Ferguson riots. "Sunday Bloody Sunday" by U2 was a song that i thought they just came up on the fly (pretty dumb, i know. I didn't even learn in world history) but now i do. There's a picture of Daly being dragged out by fellow civilians. It's brutal. I loved this article, just a lot of information you say like all the time you write here!

    I'm saying too much. By the way, U2 = one of the greatest bands that ever existed in this world.

  3. #3
    Goldberg Rules!
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    U2 fucking sucks. I've never liked a single song of theirs. Bono should be shot.

  4. #4
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Im glad you liked it. I love that you read it. I hope you read more of my Irish history stuff. I will now shred your comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    You just opened my eyes about this whole thing! Basically, what i got from it is a bunch of police officers murdered people that believed in their own views about this?
    Sort of. It was the Army (not the racist police ... I might do one on the Royal Ulster Constabulary once ... I wrote something on them in college) and they attacked them because they were supporting a movement non-violently that was connected to violent terrorism attacks going on around the same time. The British Army attacked a civil rights march. It would have been like if the Good Friday March happened in Birmingham and instead of arresting Dr. King the US Army just opened fire on the black protesters and then said they were terrorists with bombs and most people believed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    seems like what we're seeing here to this day with the recent Ferguson riots.
    Yeah sort of. Except that Mike Brown assaulted the cop in his police car and the blood trail says he charged the car. Also the Ferguson protests were full of violence and looting. Oh and the US government isnt clamping down on the protests. Oh and no one has gone to jail or been killed for leading them. So uh actually nothing at all like Ferguson .

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    "Sunday Bloody Sunday" by U2 was a song that i thought they just came up on the fly (pretty dumb, i know. I didn't even learn in world history) but now i do.
    There are actually lots of great songs about this Bloody Sunday. Christy Moore wrote a song called Minds Locked Shut where he talks about the effect Bloody Sunday had on the people who were dedicated to non-violent resistance. They knew the resistance was non-violent and when the UK government basicly called them terrorists and refused to acknowledge it was a peaceful protest that it locked people's mind shut against the British and drove them into the arms of the Provisional IRA. Then he sings the names of the people killed. Its a powerful song. Something I love about the Republican movement in Ireland is the music.

    Christy Moore - Minds Locked Shut - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBcmzaLL95s

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    There's a picture of Daly being dragged out by fellow civilians. It's brutal. I loved this article, just a lot of information you say like all the time you write here!
    Jackie Duddy is being carried away and Father Daly is the one putting himself in the line of fire to pull his body away and give the boy his last rites.

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    I'm saying too much. By the way, U2 = one of the greatest bands that ever existed in this world.
    This will blow your mind. I dont even think U2 is one of the top five IRISH bands of all time.

    Lennon and McCartney of the Beatles were first generation immigrants of Irish parents. They both supported Irish Republicanism.

    But yeah. I hope you learn more about the Struggle for Irish Freedom. Its really interesting history of which America has played a large part.

    Quote Originally Posted by T.O. View Post
    U2 fucking sucks. I've never liked a single song of theirs. Bono should be shot.
    Oh come on Bono just had a big fall of a bicycle, give the lad a break.

    Ad there are a few good U2 songs. I cant think of one right now but there are ! (thats not true i liked Rattle and Hum album and The Sweetest Thing)

    Oh yeah and this is a good song with Bono in it

    Bono & The Coors - When the Stars Go Blue - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjHLXe7A8ow

    I mean technically its written by Ryan Adams ...

    Seriously tho,

    Im thinking of doing a few more of these.

    Ive been batting this idea around in my head. They named a playground after Raymond McCreesh, an IRA Volunteer and terrorist who died on Hunger Strike protesting the British Government treatment of Republican Prisoners of War. I think it would be interesting to examine the naming of a playground after a convicted terrorist and the importance of perspective while being able to talk about the history of Raymond McCreesh's Armed Struggle against the British in the pIRA and the duality of his time as a Hunger Striker. Is a man labeled a terrorist worthy of praise?
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-22-2015 at 03:21 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Im glad you liked it. I love that you read it. I hope you read more of my Irish history stuff. I will now shred your comment.


    Yeah sort of. Except that Mike Brown assaulted the cop in his police car and the blood trail says he charged the car. Also the Ferguson protests were full of violence and looting. Oh and the US government isnt clamping down on the protests. Oh and no one has gone to jail or been killed for leading them. So uh actually nothing at all like Ferguson .

    There are actually lots of great songs about this Bloody Sunday. Christy Moore wrote a song called Minds Locked Shut where he talks about the effect Bloody Sunday had on the people who were dedicated to non-violent resistance. They knew the resistance was non-violent and when the UK government basicly called them terrorists and refused to acknowledge it was a peaceful protest that it locked people's mind shut against the British and drove them into the arms of the Provisional IRA. Then he sings the names of the people killed. Its a powerful song. Something I love about the Republican movement in Ireland is the music.



    This will blow your mind. I dont even think U2 is one of the top five IRISH bands of all time.

    Lennon and McCartney of the Beatles were first generation immigrants of Irish parents. They both supported Irish Republicanism.




    Ive been batting this idea around in my head. They named a playground after Raymond McCreesh, an IRA Volunteer and terrorist who died on Hunger Strike protesting the British Government treatment of Republican Prisoners of War. I think it would be interesting to examine the naming of a playground after a convicted terrorist and the importance of perspective while being able to talk about the history of Raymond McCreesh's Armed Struggle against the British in the pIRA and the duality of his time as a Hunger Striker. Is a man labeled a terrorist worthy of praise?

    I will now shred YOUR comment.

    Some of the protesters got taken away by police in solitary confinement. It was for unruly conduct, although they did it for something that mentioned as 'injustice' It was almost bad as LA back in '92.

    I listened to that song you put out & it was intriguing. Folk music kind of brings some happiness in yourself you know? The way he sings about the victims explains how it really went down. Irishman tend to gel reality into songs mostly.

    Coming from someone Irish, it did blow my brains out figuratively. I consider U2, Simple Minds, Cranberries, even fucking Bloody Valentine one of the greatest to come out from Ireland. Loveless is currently the album i'm listening to now, despite them having two albums.

    Is a man labeled a terrorist worthy of praise? Depends, if they did a crime to benefit their country. Or they just committed it for their own personal amusement.

  6. #6
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    I will now shred YOUR comment.
    Good. I like being challenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    Some of the protesters got taken away by police in solitary confinement. It was for unruly conduct, although they did it for something that mentioned as 'injustice' It was almost bad as LA back in '92.
    Just participating in the march was unruly conduct. It was a banned march under the Special Powers Act. Anyone participating in the banned march would have been able to be arrested . It was not a riot like the Battle of the Bogside (August 12, 1969) was a riot. It was a civil rights march. You might have the two events confused.

    Now do not get me wrong. It isn’t like there wasn’t danger on the streets of Derry. 3 days before the march, two Royal Ulster Constabulary officers, were shot dead in an attack on their patrol car in Derry in a Nationalist area. .

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    I listened to that song you put out & it was intriguing. Folk music kind of brings some happiness in yourself you know? The way he sings about the victims explains how it really went down. Irishman tend to gel reality into songs mostly.
    Yeah I love Christy Moore and his work as a troubles singer. His stuff is really beautiful. Some of it carries really great messages. The protest singer is a lost art.

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    Coming from someone Irish, it did blow my brains out figuratively. I consider U2, Simple Minds, Cranberries, even fucking Bloody Valentine one of the greatest to come out from Ireland. Loveless is currently the album i'm listening to now, despite them having two albums.

    The Irishsarah’s Top 5 Irish Bands
    1. Dubliners
    I personally feel that the Dubliners saved Irish Folk Music. Ronnie Drew and Luke Kelly were geniuses and Ciaran bourke was a nice fellow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYJO5fJgNSQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wny_0pi4hR4 (I was thinking about doing an entire column for this song explaining all the references)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMvv3LL94GM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa7birRBmNM

    2. Pogues
    I know they were formed in King’s Cross London and only Shane was Irish but multiple band members described themselves as an Irish Band. I love the pogues. I think Shane MacGowan is a poet and a paragon of a bygone era. He is the Lord Byron of our generation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZIISfOm3dI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSyL-TrD_2g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLb213lak5s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoA43mTT1fY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fiWFv0pJ3s

    3. THEM -Van Morrison
    Seriously, Van Morrison enough said.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLvBpnaVHE8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfmkgQRmmeE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wah7MqEHFg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hi2fIMzIpw

    4. Snow Patrol
    Modern and i really liked their sound.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhK81hZj4L4

    5. Thin Lizzy / The Coors

    Thin Lizzy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6Cgb8nHwk
    Thin Lizzy defines an era and their songs hold up surprisingly well compared to the dreck of the era.

    The Coors : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73XSE4YIV0
    Chick Rock gets a place on any list.

    Honorable mention to Damian Rice’s Debut Album O and The Undertones Teenage Kicks : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtUw6lxcis
    Bonus The top 2 bands on my list doing a song together : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au30c9ZMIPg

    Quote Originally Posted by tallmuslim14 View Post
    Is a man labeled a terrorist worthy of praise? Depends, if they did a crime to benefit their country. Or they just committed it for their own personal amusement.
    We will found out. Raymond McCreesh was a rough piece of work in life. He was sainted by many in the movement due to his actions
    Last edited by Irishsara; 01-23-2015 at 03:01 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    Just participating in the march was unruly conduct. It was a banned march under the Special Powers Act. Anyone participating in the banned march would have been able to be arrested . It was not a riot like the Battle of the Bogside (August 12, 1969) was a riot. It was a civil rights march. You might have the two events confused.











    4. Snow Patrol
    Modern and i really liked their sound.
    I was talking about Ferguson. You misunderstood me. & Snow Patrol's good as well. You have to chase cars to understand them, i don't know. What's your views on state terrorism then?

  8. #8
    Very interesting reading views from outside the city on this. I appreciate your family connections make you feel closer than most. It's 1 of the most horendous crimes ever committed by the British army, murdering 14 innocent civilians that they were originally brought in to 'protect'. There is video footage of the march earlier before it reached the town, heading down Southway and it's jovial, an atmosphere entirely in conflict from what would happen a short time later. There is still a march for justice every year as no members of the para's have been charged, though there is hope that that is in the process of changing at the minute. In fact a march by supporters of the parachute regiment was cancelled today, which is a good thing as it would've been mayhem had that gone ahead.

    I know personally many family members of the victims, most of the Duddy family, the Kelly's and a few others. It's insane that feelings here are still so strong 45 years after the event. The perpertrators need to see justice, no matter how old they are now.

    Enjoyed your article, well written and informative. Liked the Jean McConville one too. Keep them coming.

  9. #9
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    The British army executed 14 paddy's & you people are up in arms 45 years later. The British army has executed perhaps untold millions, with the help of many Irishmen, yet I don't see you snowflakes melting over that. The American Police probably execute hundreds of innocent people everyday. When Ireland gets cluster bombed into the next century, then there is a case for remembrance.

  10. #10
    You're a fucking idiot.

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    This is a non flaming forum, and that was clearly a personal attack. Moderators do your job!!!

  12. #12
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GNR711 View Post
    The British army executed 14 paddy's & you people are up in arms 45 years later. The British army has executed perhaps untold millions, with the help of many Irishmen, yet I don't see you snowflakes melting over that. The American Police probably execute hundreds of innocent people everyday. When Ireland gets cluster bombed into the next century, then there is a case for remembrance.
    I am sorry that you do not see what this massacre did. Just a few days ago, in Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein, the political wing of the Provisional IRA received 27.9% of first preference votes and became one seat away from being the largest party in Northern Irish assembly. They are the political party with the highest support on the island of Ireland and for the first time in the history of the statelet, voters for Unionist parties no longer make up the majority of votes cast in the election. There is no longer a Unionist majority in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein's rise to power can be traced back to this moment where innocent people were murdered by the British Army. This was one of those moments which forged Northern Ireland today.

    Those soldiers are still facing investigations and potential jail time.

    Tiocfaidh ar la

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    I am sorry that you do not see what this massacre did. Just a few days ago, in Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein, the political wing of the Provisional IRA received 27.9% of first preference votes and became one seat away from being the largest party in Northern Irish assembly. They are the political party with the highest support on the island of Ireland and for the first time in the history of the statelet, voters for Unionist parties no longer make up the majority of votes cast in the election. There is no longer a Unionist majority in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein's rise to power can be traced back to this moment where innocent people were murdered by the British Army. This was one of those moments which forged Northern Ireland today.

    Those soldiers are still facing investigations and potential jail time.

    Tiocfaidh ar la
    I see this as not mattering. I have lived in Asia, and the Koreans & Chinese are still angry at the Japanese over world war II. But if you go to Japan, no one cares about what happened during world II. People are not obsessing over "oh my god America bombed our country for months and months,killing millions of civilian then they nuked us" It's a non-issue, this is the sign of a highly evolved culture. If the Irish, and the Irish Americans who had absolutely nothing at all to do with this, are still seething over the incident, then it is time for the culture to grow up, move on, and evolve. Life happens.

  14. #14
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    The American occupation of Japan ended in 1951. That is why no one cares. If America still ruled Japan as a colony (with oversight of it's provincial government, threatening to strip powers and imposing laws without consent of the local government) then the Japanese would be fighting for their rights and freedoms.

    1/8th of Ireland is still occupied by British forces today. The Irish have been fighting for independence for almost 850 years and it isnt going to stop now. Sure, the conflict now is mostly non-violent, but there are many types of conflict. This instance is relevant because of the effect it still has today, not just as an emotional touchstone but as one of the events which set into motion the changes taking place in Ireland today. In Irish history there are a few of these events which change the flow of history. Bloody sunday is one of them. James Connolly being executed tied to a chair is another. Bobby Sands' death through hunger strike, The sack of Drogheda, the publishing of Wolfe Tone's 1791 pamphlet An Argument on Behalf of the Catholics of Ireland, Michael Collins' attack on irish forces occupying the Four Courts and the 1998 Good Friday Agreement are these moments in Irish history that, if they had gone differently, might have lead to a very different country.

    Sure, as a child, i learned to play Go Home British Soldiers on the tin whistle and yeah my summers in Co. Donegal probably impacted how I wrote this article but it is still an important chapter in history, not just because of the innocent people killed but because even today, it is politically salient. This is not the first time members of the British Armed Forces opened fire indiscriminantly on Irish civilians and it was not the last, but it is a good example why, even today, the Northern Ireland Attorney General, John Larkin is under pressure to prosecute members of this same regiment for crimes which took place in 1972. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-38340312

    This isn't dead history. It is living politics and part of a struggle which continues today.

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    The irish vote probably has more to do with brexit than anything else.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
    The irish vote probably has more to do with brexit than anything else.
    No, Brexit was rarely mentioned. If it was about Brexit than the UUP would have done better (being against Brexit) while the parties that did well were Sinn Fein, the SDLP (they didnt lose their voting share) and the Alliance. Unionists rallied behind the DUP but the higher turnout among Nationalist/Republicans meant that they were slashed to the lowest levels the pundits thought possible. Hell, The SDLP and Sinn Fein have more seats than the DUP/UUP.

    I think it was two pronged. Arlene Foster's position as Northern Ireland's First Minister was the driving force in this election. She has shouldered the blame when her department introduced a fraudulent renewable energy incentive scheme which cost the taxpayer such a huge amount of badly needed money and she has refused to step aside while it was investigated.

    Foster also ran this campaign as a traditional "break the bastards " narrow divisive backward looking sectarian Unionist campaign. She attacked the Irish language and identity.She used the specter of The IRA Army Council, Gerry Adams and IRA-Sinn Fein to try and rally her base and instead she turned out Republicans who have been demographically growing since the Good Friday Agreement. She said that Sinn Fein's leader in the North would be "instructed by Gerry Adams" a claim she never would have made about McGuinness. She described Gay Marriage supporters as "very vicious". She claimed basically that Sinn Fein shouldn't talk about her misspending public funds because ...terrorists .... She tried to cover her domestic scandal as as antifeminist male chauvinism (which was ridiculous). It was her arrogance, her lack of willingness to compromise and her inability to accept symbols of shared culture which sparked the fire that drove the Northern Irish electorate.

    She said, while trying to justify blocking a proposed Irish Language Act to give parody to the Irish language like Scottish gaelic and Welsh receive in other parts of the United Kingdom, that “If we have an Irish language act maybe we should have a Polish language act as well because there are more people in Northern Ireland that speak Polish, than speak Irish. " The claim is not true by the way (17,731 people speak Polish in NI and there are 104,943 irish speakers in Northern Ireland)

    She also said of Sinn Fein demands “If you feed the crocodile they just come back for more.”

    Michelle O'Neill, Sinn Fein's leader for the North of Ireland meanwhile ran a campaign on equality, respect and integrity. She used issues like Gay marriage, the Irish Language, fighting corruption (sort of hilarious if you think about it) and the Republican tradition of fighting for the rights of the people. She was replacing a giant of the Republican struggle and did so with grace and humility. She couldn't have played that dichotomy more perfectly.

    The crocodile stuff has been my favorite part of this election. People in Crocodile suits, obnoxious tweets, articles now about how it is time to feed the crocodile now that the democratic unionist veto has been defeated. It is all great stuff. But my favorite took place on count night. So Arlene Foster’s greatest ally in the Assembly was Maurice Morrow. Lord Morrow lost his seat in the Assembly and was beaten for the last seat by Sinn Fein’s Sean Lynch. Sean Lynch is a former IRA commander who was captured in a firefight by the SAS in 1986 and was imprisoned at Her Majesty's pleasure . During that firefight, IRA Volunteer Seamus McElwaine was killed. Seamus McElwaine was the man that So Arele’s greatest ally was replaced by the comrade of a man who Foster thinks tried to murder her father in her Fermanagh and South Tyrone constituency. After the election count, Arlene Foster left during Sean Lynch’s victory speech. As Arlene Foster stormed out of the election count in Omagh Leisure Centre, Sean Lynch calls out “See you later, alligator” at Foster’s retreating back.

  17. #17
    How Irish are you? I am being serious.

    My birth mother is/was (never met her no clue what became of her) an off-the-boat (probably illegal at the time at least) Irish. She came over when she was 16, got knocked up at 17, kicked my beautiful ass out her vag, and put me up for adoption. I was adopted at 3 months old. Shit maybe at one time I was an illegal. Never told anything about my dad. For all I know he was an illegal too.

    I never advertise myself as being Irish. This is something you do obviously. If people legit ask about my back ground I say Irish but I don't sit there and advertise myself as anything short of American. My adpoted parents often tell me I should go visit Ireland and look into some record books blah blah, no. To me, it be a solid kick in the dick to my adopted family to do something like that. Only reason I would even be a bit curious is to find out health history. Sort of like going and finding out I need to get a colonoscopy asap because everyone on my moms side died of colon cancer. That's it.

    I see micks all the time bragging about being of Irish descent, especially around this time of the year of course, and I just shake my head. "THIS IS MY HOLIDAY, MY PEOPLE" then you find out their great great great great great great great great grandpa came from Ireland and that's there ubber Irish descent.

    Reminds me of when I worked with a straight-off-the-boat African. Guy was smart as fuck. Really sharp. He absolutely hated American blacks, despite being black as coal himself. He would legit lose his shit if a black guy from the north side of Milwaukee referred to himself as "African American".

    Now I don't get pissed when 1%'ers run around town on St. Patricks day claiming it's their day. I could honestly careless if Ireland sunk into the ocean to be honest....but I can where the African had a point regarding the blacks. Am I wrong?

    I'm being serious. I'm not trolling/flaming/etc. I never interacted with you until this election before. Maybe you've explained your links hundreds of times, I don't know. Regardles of how yuo're tied back, to you understand my point? or do you think I'm just being an asshole?

    I could have maybe started a different thread but I felt this wasn't worth its own thread and figured this most relevant.

    Edit: I did this off my cell so ya it's put together shitty. I fixed what I could
    Last edited by notslap; 03-06-2017 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Did off my mobile

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    Sarah is seriously the biggest wanna-be Irish person I have ever seen. I have been exposed to some dorks when playing rugby that appeared to have Irish blood / one of your typical mic looks, they have random Irsh tatoo's and what-not, but they would never try so hard to be Irish like Sarah. So it seems Slap is part Irish, Aqualungs is at least part Irish, and Flamingbana is actually Mexican, but he identity's as full-on Irish...I think the dud has some Irish leprechaun / hobbit blood in him as well.

    Now slap - to address sarah's background, it seems from what I can deduce from her postings she was raised in some kind of Irish Ghetto-commune area similar to that where the Irish people lived in the gangs of newyork.
    Last edited by GNR711; 03-06-2017 at 08:56 PM.

  19. #19
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post
    How Irish are you? I am being serious.
    I am an Irish Citizen. I have a red passport with a harp on it. I am a dual citizen. I was born in Boston.

    Both my parents fled Northern Ireland during the Troubles. After the death of my Grandfather my Grandmother joined us in America and lived with us. My uncle followed too later. Every summer my Grandmother would go back to Ireland to stay with my Aunt in Co. Donegal. She would take my brother and I. I spent 2 months of most of my summers until my teens on the coast of Donegal. I still spend at least a week every year there. It is sort of a family vacation thing we always do.

    My father is an immigration lawyer. When we moved out of our Irish American ghetto in Boston to the suburbs (because the American Dream is a thing) I think it shook my mother and grandmother. My grandmother made sure I was raised with the Irish culture in a way that only someone who fears the americanization of their grandchildren can. That means Irish Step classes, sing songs, Irish American clubs, Books, a gaelic summer class (which I failed spectacularly). Someone suspicious of my father's motives might have pointed out that having a connection to a community of immigrants helped with his street cred but ... I identify with the irish culture because it was something that drew my family together. It didnt matter me or my cousins in Canada or my cousins in Ireland. We were family.

    Quote Originally Posted by notslap View Post
    I see micks all the time bragging about being of Irish descent, especially around this time of the year of course, and I just shake my head. "THIS IS MY HOLIDAY, MY PEOPLE" then you find out their great great great great great great great great grandpa came from Ireland and that's there ubber Irish descent.

    Reminds me of when I worked with a straight-off-the-boat African. Guy was smart as fuck. Really sharp. He absolutely hated American blacks, despite being black as coal himself. He would legit lose his shit if a black guy from the north side of Milwaukee referred to himself as "African American".

    Now I don't get pissed when 1%'ers run around town on St. Patricks day claiming it's their day. I could honestly careless if Ireland sunk into the ocean to be honest....but I can where the African had a point regarding the blacks. Am I wrong?
    St. Patricks day is an American thing. They dont really DO it in Ireland like we do it here. Americans invented it. Stuff like the marches, going to bars, wearing green, that is all American stuff. It was the law in ireland until the late 20th century that Pubs and shops couldn't open on St. Patrick's day.

    Hell, usually the leaders of Northern Ireland and the Irish Prime Minister comes to America on St. Patricks day. it is a day for the Diaspora. It started in America after the 1798 rebellion where a lot of the leaders fled. It was illegal to wear green in Ireland (which was the color of the Irish rebellion, St. Patrick's actual color is blue)

    In the words of that immortal Irishman, Ronnie Drew, Ireland's greatest export is people. There is never enough work, education or opportunity. Especially in the areas dominated by the British, traditionally, one had to leave if one was going to make something of themselves. Between 1840 and 1900, Ireland lost half it's population to either famine or emigration. Irish mass emigration is something that continues even today, it kept a roof over my head growing up. I understand those Americans generations Generations of Shanty Irish Americans drawn to the culture because it helps them remember their parents, or warm memories they have when their lullabies were in those soft irish accents. You see it all over the world. Things passed from parent to child which creates things like the Glasgow Celtic Football Club or horrific Irish Pubs in small towns across America. It becomes part of the identity. Sure, I am lucky enough to have experienced Ireland but even if I wasn't, id want to share in it with my parents like President Kennedy did when, on the night he was elected to the US Senate, he stood on a table and sang "Boys of Wexford Town" despite the fact that his mother and father were born in Boston Massachusetts.

  20. #20
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    Legally Sara is a dual citizen because of her parents. However technically she is American. Born in Boston that makes you American. Simple as that. If she was born in Ireland she'd be Irish. She can spin it however she wants. She's as American as you slap. Unless Boston no longer is geographically in the United States.

    She's also right on St Paddy day. ( biggest armature holiday in the states) it is way more American than Irish.

    When I was working in Boston bars during the summers Irish college students would come over to the states to work they'd always work in bars easy good money. Obviously being from Boston every one use to tell them they were Irish too. The Irish kids would just give them a look laugh and say no you are American. Only Americans label themselves everything else but what they actually are ... American.

  21. #21
    Queen of Extreme Irishsara's Avatar
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    In Ireland, if you are born in Ireland, it doesnt make you Irish, you can be born in Ireland, to Ex-pat parents who havent been living there that long and not get citizenship (I think your parents have to have been living in Ireland for 3 full years before your kids are entitled to citizenship). Legally, I am Irish.

    I am as Irish as JFK and that is Irish enough for me.
    Last edited by Irishsara; 03-06-2017 at 10:22 PM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishsara View Post
    In Ireland, if you are born in Ireland, it doesnt make you Irish, you can be born in Ireland, to Ex-pat parents who havent been living there that long and not get citizenship (I think your parents have to have been living in Ireland for 3 full years before your kids are entitled to citizenship). Legally, I am Irish.

    I am as Irish as JFK and that is Irish enough for me.
    ya, you're definitely way Irish. Now I get your ubber pro-immigration stance as well.

  23. #23
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    Boston Irish. Just like Mickey Donovan. FMM is Black Irish

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GNR711 View Post
    This is a non flaming forum, and that was clearly a personal attack. Moderators do your job!!!
    It wasn't a personal attack, it was a simple observation. I make no apologies, the subject matter on thread is very close to my heart.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GNR711 View Post
    It's a non-issue, this is the sign of a highly evolved culture. If the Irish, and the Irish Americans who had absolutely nothing at all to do with this, are still seething over the incident, then it is time for the culture to grow up, move on, and evolve. Life happens.
    What you're doing there is confusing actions in a world war with a military force, acting on behalf of 'the crown', executing 14 innocent civilians for no reason whatsoever. Not a single soldier has yet served any prison time for their actions, they may do, but I would doubt it very much. I know personally many of the families who had sons and brothers executed that day. It took 20 fucking years for an apology. I wonder if your attitude would be so blaise were it your brother murdered, your son executed by foreign soliders.

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    This nonsense happens all the time in various countries. It was just 14 people. Let it go and just become one with the crown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Banana View Post
    What you're doing there is confusing actions in a world war with a military force, acting on behalf of 'the crown', executing 14 innocent civilians for no reason whatsoever. Not a single soldier has yet served any prison time for their actions, they may do, but I would doubt it very much. I know personally many of the families who had sons and brothers executed that day. It took 20 fucking years for an apology. I wonder if your attitude would be so blaise were it your brother murdered, your son executed by foreign soliders.
    You've said it yourself. They've apologised. Let it go.

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