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Thread: Lucha Underground General Discussion

  1. #881
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    Goddammit

  2. #882
    Here's the situation. Apparently when Court Bauer initially reported LU was going to be on Netflix starting tomorrow he was actually reporting the day Netflix would receive all of LU's content. Unfortunately it's not as simple as them uploading it all onto the platform; there's apparently a lot of technical mumbo jumbo that will take some time to sort out. Hence why LU won't be on there till probably early to mid-March (some reports have said it could be till early May but I'd be stunned if it took that long). It's unfortunate, but it's more so for the fact that Bauer incorrectly reported the date thanks to misinformation or a misinterpretation of the info he got (it's notable now that LU never confirmed the date themselves, outside of several performers parrotting Bauer's report, and that numerous other people close to the situation were saying it wouldn't be on by February 15th soon after Bauer's report). The good news is that it will eventually be on there and it'll be far easier to access now. Even better news; both Pentagon and Eric Van Wagenen confirmed separately this week that the LU and AAA deals are indeed separate and Pentagon will indeed be back for season four. And if he's back, that means everyone else with a question mark will be back too.


  3. #883
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    I could see early May. If they're coming back May 31, it gives a few weekends worth of binging time.

    Most info coming out has been regarding Netflix US, I'm still pulling for Netflix Canada to get the latest episodes each week. That would be big for LU. I think I mentioned before, but Dusk Til Dawn got the "New Episodes Weekly" treatment and was pushed as a Netflix Original, despite being an El Ray production. What that meant was that I couldn't escape that shit, it was all over my feed. I'll bet LU could get a ton of view based on that alone.

    I don't see why they wouldn't do it if they could get a few extra bucks out of it, since a) the rights are different from country to country, blah, blah, blah and b) they have literally no access into Canada right now. Put everything you've aired so far up and that's great...but there's no way to legally access anything up to date. I can't even watch the recap videos on YouTube because they're geoblocked. I had a buddy that I thought might be into LU, but it was such a headache to find highlights that weren't blocked in Canada that I just gave up.

  4. #884
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    Does it really matter that we binge? As I understand it, it's only the first two seasons, so we'd still be behind the curve picking up on 5/31.

  5. #885
    Just a heads up, I'm working on getting an interview with Eric Van Wagenen for LOP Radio. He reached out to me earlier this week and said he'd be open to doing something soon now that the Netflix and Pentagon stuff are worked out. Stay tuned.
    Last edited by TripleR; 02-16-2017 at 12:32 PM.

  6. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    Just a heads up, I'm working on getting an interview with Eric Van Wagenen for LOP Radio. He reached out to me earlier this week and said he'd be open to doing something soon now that the Netflix and Pentagon stuff are worked out. Stay tuned.
    Sounds good!
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  7. #887
    Son of Havoc just tweeted out March 15th for the Netflix debut.

  8. #888
    Entertainment Weekly and other sites have also listed it as being available starting March 15th and Eric Van Wagenen has said so as well. You never know for sure after the wackiness from earlier this month, but that seems to be the date.


  9. #889
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    Lucha Libre FMV (the joint company run by AAA and Lucha Underground) threatened to sue Pacific Coast Wrestling for booking Rey Fenix and Pentagon Jr./Penta0m. They sent them a legal letter. This all despite the promo material not referring to Rey Fenix or Pentagon in any way. The letter even says "At the light of the above, we are sending you this communication requesting you to cease and refrain from the unauthorized and misuse of the intellectual property and also please avoid to hire any person that uses such intellectual property or any other confusingly similar.

    The actual letters are out there but because they are hosted on another wrestling site i dont think I can post them. It is an amazing view of how Lucha Underground views Rey Fenix and Pentagon. Seek them out.

  10. #890
    It has happened! Lucha Underground is on Netflix, here in the States and apparently in Canada and Latin America as well. About damn time.


  11. #891
    The Greatest of All Time LWO4Life's Avatar
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    T.O.

    You are coming over, we are binge watching this. By the end, you will be a Believer!

    Has Vince McMahon Lost Confidence in Roman Reigns.

  12. #892
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    YES, about damn time! Gonna start binge watching the series for sure.

  13. #893
    We have interviews on both the Main Page in my WTTU column and on LOP Radio on The Global Revolution next Tuesday with Eric Van Wagenen, Exec Producer of LU.

  14. #894
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    Enjoyed both of them, really good stuff.

  15. #895
    So there's some potential problems in Lucha land. Looks like Impact and AAA have entered into a partnership and AAA President Dorian Roldan said it's possible that some LU stars could potentially appear on Impact Wrestling, but NOT in their LU personas. This is a bit of an issue, as Ricochet has been told he's not allowed to appear for Ring of Honor as he's under a LU contract, and others like Sami Callihan have joined him in their bewilderment of what appears to be a double-standard.

    No comment from LU as of yet.
    Last edited by TripleR; 04-20-2017 at 04:03 PM.

  16. #896
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    God, that really is frustrating. Nothing will hurt LU more than getting a reputation as a bad place to work. I've heard mostly positive comments in the past but between the season break (not their fault) and now this (possibly their fault), it could start to be a concern. Hopefully not, but I completely get why Ricochet is feeling frustrated if this turns out to be true.

  17. #897
    This is either one of two things; Dorian doesn't believe LU has much longer and thus he's latching onto Impact as a safety net, or he's trying to appease a couple of individuals and thus has alienated others because he's a moron. Remember how King Cuerno/El Hijo del Fantasma wanted to go do the WWE CWC last year, got blocked and was unhappy with it? Well guess who was one of the poster children for this Impact/AAA agreement during the press conference; Fantasma. I'm betting Dorian has tried to placate him by saying he can work LU as Cuerno and TNA as Fantasma, thus why he's saying LU guys can work Impact under different gimmicks. Thus you have this and thus you have guys getting upset.

    The long story is that Dorian needs to go. Like now. Every single issue Lucha Underground has seemingly had in the past year with the exception of the season three hiatus (which was El Rey's call) has been because of Dorian; he's the one who ran off all the LU/AAA dudes from AAA and into The Crash, he's the only one who cares about them working both (as both Trips and mizfan revealed in their interviews, Eric Van Wagenen couldn't care less where these guys work as long as it's not on competing US TV) and he's the one who flubbed the Netflix announcement all so he could make himself look better. Every single thing LU has been criticized for is because of Dorian Roldan, which is hilarious because aside from investors the man has contributed absolutely nothing to the LU product; everything you see on TV is because of the talent, Van Wagenen, Chris DeJoseph, Chris Roach and the awesome production staff. And all of LU's work and reputation is being ruined because Dorian has no idea what he's doing. He has to go now; pressure needs to be put on Factory Made Ventures, Mark Burnett, El Rey and Robert Rodriguez now to get rid of him and actually take responsibility to fund the show themselves. If not, LU is boned.


  18. #898
    As reported by the Observer

    According to The Observer, Pentagon was offered a new contract promising a push as the promotion's top wrestler and a raise to $1,500 per match. However, if he signed, Pentagon would not be able to work for CMLL, Impact Wrestling, The Crash or any promotion that was affiliated with Konnan. Pentagon quit AAA, which is affiliated with Lucha Underground, earlier this year and joined fellow Lucha Underground star and real-life brother Fenix, among others, in jumping to The Crash. Pentagon quit using the Pentagon, Jr., name, which is trademarked by AAA, and started going by Penta El 0M on the independent circuit.

    Seems as though LU is seriously caught up in the Mexico drama, and now with Impact thrown in, things are going to get very complicated

  19. #899
    I can add a little to that Trips. I've been told that AAA was part of the places he wouldn't have to work either. It's basically an exclusive LU deal and less a "don't work with Konnan" deal (especially since Konnan has no affiliation with CMLL); Pentagon gets more money, the top spot in LU (which is odd because he already is anyway) and can still work PWG, AAW and the England promotions he's working, he just can't work anywhere else. The interesting thing is that this isn't a Dorian deal; Van Wagenen is the one who offered it to him at a dinner not too long ago and I was also told that he and several others put the deal together (this does contradict EVW not caring about Pentagon and others working The Crash, so it's possible Dorian threw that caviat in. Everything else was EVW and his people). At this point Pentagon hasn't responded one way or another to the offer and likely won't until he has to; he's still signed to that original seven season deal and has no plans to leave LU as of now. So until he has to, he's going to continue to work LU, Crash and all his indies.


  20. #900
    Man, it's just getting seriously messy. I don't see how anything good comes out of all this drama between the Mexican organizations and this new deal with Jarrett.

  21. #901
    Oh The Crash is going to get royally screwed too. They had an agreement with TNA first and also have Konnan working for them. Now this? I can only imagine how ticked off Konnan is.

    Again, this whole thing feels more like Dorian trying to find a fall back if LU goes under more than anything else. Keep in mind, the only LU people he can offer Impact (as of now) are the ones signed to both LU and AAA, which is Aerostar, Angelico, Argenis, Drago, El Hijo del Fantasma, Johnny Mundo, Kevin Kross, Mil Muertes, Taya and Texano. Aerostar, Argenis, Drago and Texano couldn't appear without being repackaged (and there's no way AAA is suddenly repackaging three established guys) and it's not like Dorian can force Angelico, Mundo, Kross, Mil (who had a terrible experience with TNA if you recall) and Taya to go if they don't want to (which I don't believe they will) as all five could merely quit AAA and latch onto The Crash/other indies while keeping their LU gigs. In short, most of the LU roster doesn't have to do it because they have no obligations to Impact or AAA, most signed to LU/AAA can't because they'd have to change gimmicks and the rest have enough leverage that they wouldn't have. El Hijo del Fantasma/King Cuerno is really the only one who seems to want to do both LU and TNA and can. So honestly I don't see this affecting LU as much as people think.

    The bigger issue is that Dorian is still in charge, may be actively trying to find another partnership with another company, may not have a clue of what he's actually doing and may also be trying to undermine everything just because he didn't get his was (i.e. Konnan leaving AAA for The Crash and taking many AAA/LU guys with him). He has got to go and be replaced immediately. There is no other way to put it. He needs to go.


  22. #902
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    I had no idea LU returned last night until this morning when I was looking for shows to watch. Great match between Mack and Mundo and while I loved the dramatic ending, kinda sucks we get no result and it gets pushed to next week.

  23. #903
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    That was some high drama throughout that match. It was very well performed. I was certainly not disappointed after having to wait for so long for the show to return.
    Don't Touch That Dial!



  24. #904
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    Gonna watch the new episode tonight as soon as I get a chance, can't wait!!

  25. #905
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    When Cueto came out during the Mack/Mundo aftermath, I kinda expected him to up the ante next week. But then again, does any match stipulation in LU top All Night Long?

  26. #906
    I was actually pretty disappointed in the episode actually. After a long break, and potentially getting new viewers from Netflix, it was the wrong episode to come back with. Now I know LU had no control over when the break happened, but new viewers would be looking for more stars that they just encountered in their Netflix binging and they didn't get that.

    As for the match itself, it was just OK. The point of Mundo picking that match was to prove that The Mack wasn't built to go All Night Long, but in watching the match, he actually proved his point. There were several instances where they had to accommodate for Willie not being able to keep that pace. The extended period where Mundo faked an injury gave him a couple minutes to rest. Bringing in PJ Black, Sexy Star and Son of Havoc gave him extended time to rest. If you add it all up, there was easily a 5-10 minute period where The Mack wasn't heavily exerting himself to give him a chance to recover. So really, didn't Johnny's point get proven?

    I was also left cold at the ending. A 3-3 tie going into next week? Again, time for The Mack to rest, but a cliffhanger match? I don't know. Maybe it was the extended break, but I've lost my LU buzz, and I hope they haven't lost their momentum.

    On the plus side though, I will say that Mundo looked fantastic. Dude has really come into his own.

  27. #907
    Senior Member Oliver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    As for the match itself, it was just OK. The point of Mundo picking that match was to prove that The Mack wasn't built to go All Night Long, but in watching the match, he actually proved his point. There were several instances where they had to accommodate for Willie not being able to keep that pace. The extended period where Mundo faked an injury gave him a couple minutes to rest. Bringing in PJ Black, Sexy Star and Son of Havoc gave him extended time to rest. If you add it all up, there was easily a 5-10 minute period where The Mack wasn't heavily exerting himself to give him a chance to recover. So really, didn't Johnny's point get proven?
    Personally I thought that was one of the points of the match in terms of storytelling - because Mundo's a dick he picked the right stipulation, but then was also a dick about it in the match and used cheaper and cheaper tactics as it went on to try and keep winning. His first pin was completely clean, his second one was with rope assistance, and his third was after faking the injury, a progression of dickheadishness. When you consider that all the outside interference then happened, he technically just kept upping the anti on being a heel douche throughout the match. I mean, in the end he even introduced a new WWU member/his own superfan to help him out. The tecnicos turned up and took everyone out and fed Mack some spinach beer which 'revived' him, but broadly speaking Mundo made an intelligent choice on the stipulation which meant that, come the end, Mack couldn't cover even though he had Mundo laid out for well over the three count due to the attrition of the match. I thought they pitched that perfectly, as well as showing us who their top rudo(s) and top tecnico(s) are right now.

    The one thing I think they could have done, although it may have detracted from the all night long aspect of it all, was add in a bit of, say, the Rey/Metanza and Puma/Vampiro stuff, possibly just bookend the episode with it, to show where the two 'stars' of the show are currently at. But I guess that's tough if they've not filmed anything that fits around those angles.

  28. #908
    I agree with that last point Oli. When last we saw the Temple, Matanza was basically dead right? I mean Dario ushered everybody out, closed the Temple and that was the mid-season finale. Now we're back with nary a mention of what happened, a fixed office, and Dario just being Dario. That seemed a little odd to me in retrospect.

  29. #909
    The break was the issue here. Take away the break and it's only been an episode since LU last addressed the Puma/Mil issues (remember, the last episode before the break featured Catrina confronting Puma) and the Matanza/Rey/Azteca feud. On top of that the preview blurb released about next week's episode has revealed that Puma and Mil will be fighting in a Boyle Heights Street Fight and Dario will have an announcement, which reasonably could be about Matanza's status (and even if it isn't, there could very well be a scene showing us the aftermath anyway). So the oddness is really all because of the break more than anything LU is done. I guarantee it'll all flow a hell of a lot better once this season makes it to Netflix (or if you're watching it on Amazon).

    As for the match itself, I thought it was excellent, especially from a storytelling perspective. Work rate wise it was fine; we had some amazing moments like the Mack splash and Mundo's tornillo, but I think everyone can agree that both guys have and can do better. But the storytelling was as great as it's ever been. You had the match long story of Mack dominating the action, but never quite being able to do enough to get a three count (there was at least ten times Mack hit a high impact move and Mundo kicked out), while Johnny did just enough through his athleticism and cheating to pull ahead. The interference made sense and actually worked to the benefit of the match. The fake injury spot I thought was tremendous; I'm sure everyone could see it coming but even still it got so much heat on Mundo that it pretty much had the match sitting pretty the rest of the way. The crowd didn't just want Willie to win after that, they NEEDED him to win.

    But ironically enough the best part of the match, for me anyway, is the part Trips and a lot of people didn't like; the ending. Let's be real here folks; Willie Mack isn't the guy to unseat Johnny Mundo as champion. As of right now (even with the break) Puma regaining his mojo and defeating his former rival to win the belt or Pentagon finally putting it all together are better options than Mack defeating Mundo. That said, Mack is definitely someone who could be champion down the road in season four, so the ending of this match had to be one that a) kept the belt off Willie and b) made you want him to win it even more than you did going in. That's exactly what the finish accomplished. After all the struggles, all the interference and all the missed opportunities to put Johnny away, Mack finally seemed to get the big one when he nailed that splash (an awesome moment by the way)...and then it was cruelly snatched away from him by time running out. It's a heartbreaking defeat, but dammit if it didn't make me want to see him win that title more than ever come next week. That's classic pro wrestling booking right there, and I can only hope they've got something just as good planned for next week when Mack comes up short again (which I'm guessing he will).

    So yeah; awesome match, awesome episode and just the return LU needed. Even if you didn't love it or even despised aspects of it, you can't deny this match got people talking about LU and more importantly got people talking about the LU product, as opposed to all the other Dorian Roldan related issues going on. They needed that coming back and they have it; hopefully they can build on it with a strong second half.


  30. #910
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    Are people talking about it though? Not trying to be combative as I'm not really deep in those circles, just curious. I had no idea it was even returning this week.

  31. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    Are people talking about it though? Not trying to be combative as I'm not really deep in those circles, just curious. I had no idea it was even returning this week.
    Very good point actually. It's been the normal LU coverage, but nothing above and beyond reminding people really.

  32. #912
    What else is on? JSR-13's Avatar
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    To Cult's point- Striker on commentary said "last week" as opposed to "five months ago". So clearly there was no expectation of such a long break.

    Maybe I could be accused of just being on some sort of 'high' from the excitement of the show returning, and just looking at the match through rose-colored lenses. But I really think the match was superb and it was definitely the highlight of Mack's run on the show thus far. The finish of the match was never really in question, I don't think, but they did a really good job of teasing falls and creating drama. The "finish" was well done, and I'm not mad at all about the hook they created for next week's episode.

    But I do also get what Rob was saying about the Rey/Matanza stuff. Maybe that will all be cleared up next week?
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  33. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    Are people talking about it though? Not trying to be combative as I'm not really deep in those circles, just curious. I had no idea it was even returning this week.
    There were plenty of people talking about it the night it happened, at least on Twitter. And it was trending pretty high for whatever that's worth. Obviously you can bank on that being a great indicator and, to your point about not knowing it was back, the LU social media team is dreadful and doesn't do a ton to help the show. But even without that it seemed like a lot of people were intrigued by the episode. And hell, even if Trips is right and it was just "normal" coverage, I'd call that a win considering there was legit concern most people watching before the break would be gone. If they even just had the normal group of fans like myself back and heavily discussing the show, then that's very good.


  34. #914
    Cult- I agree with you that LU doesn't do nearly enough to help themselves, and that really hurts them. We've talked about their lack of social media presence, the skin and bones merchandise, etc. I ultimately worry that without any sort of boost, things may not turn out so well. There seems to be a real lack of commitment from the higher-ups, which we've discussed at length.

  35. #915
    Absolutely. The problem with Lucha Underground, as I've said many times and will again now for those who missed it the first 9,000, isn't even Lucha Underground (or what I consider to be Lucha Underground). The wrestlers, Eric Van Wagenen, Chris DeJoseph and the rest of the talent that works on the onscreen product have all done phenomenal jobs. That makes it all the more appalling that Dorian Roldan, Factory Made Ventures and even the El Rey Network itself have failed it by not promoting the show enough, alienating talent, giving false information regarding certain things (i.e. Dorian giving the wrong date for the Netflix release just so he could give the correct one); hell the only reason we had a delay in season three is because El Rey wanted to hold the show off. That wasn't an LU call. For all the hard work the talent and creative staff have given into making LU a top quality show, the people behind the scenes have done an amazingly bad job making a ton of it meaningless. I'm hopeful that LU will be around for a long time (and I'm honestly not worried about it right now; I just want to enjoy the rest of season three as much as I can), but the higher ups are highly questionable and Trips is absolutely right when he says there's a lack of commitment from them.


  36. #916
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    The discussion about the break is perfectly valid but I admit I kind of just glossed over it in my mind, personally, and was able to jump right back in.

    Loved the match, complete with the finish. Very old school way to end the match, and the fact that we roll right into next week suits me fine. I really dug the character progression, especially by Mundo as Ollie mentioned earlier. It was frankly a masterclass for Mundo all the way through, one of his best all around performances ever. The way he suckered the live crowd in on the fake injury was beautiful. Mack was great too, and I thought the way they worked in all the outside players was balanced perfectly. Very glad the show is back.

  37. #917
    Man, the all night long concept is really taking off. Mundo has mastered it. His shannagins with the band, the way he waste time when he's ahead. Good fucking shit.

  38. #918
    The brackets for the Cueto Cup have been released. Some really intriguing matchups in round one, as well as a few squashes. The winner gets a shot at the title at Ultima Lucha Tres. Some noticeable absentees from the brackets are Jack Evans (who had broken his jaw), Angelico, Ivelisse (still recovering from injury), King Cuerno (almost gone all season), and Matanza. There is a mystery spot against Son of Havoc, so we'll see who that turns out to be in a few weeks. Tournament kicks off this week.

  39. #919
    It'll be Block A tonight; Aerostar vs. Drago, a returning Pentagon vs. Argenis, Big Willie vs. Mala Suerte and Famous B vs. Texano. I assume Block B will be next week, followed by C, D and then the later rounds.


  40. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    It'll be Block A tonight; Aerostar vs. Drago, a returning Pentagon vs. Argenis, Big Willie vs. Mala Suerte and Famous B vs. Texano. I assume Block B will be next week, followed by C, D and then the later rounds.
    Yup, should be good. I've got a preview on the Main Page of the first round.

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